I'm giving you a years notice of my vacation.

[u/lil_tink_tink]

I used to work for a small printing company that did work for a local college and their choir program. The director was a literal Karen (looked like one too) and made our lives a living hell leading up to her annual Christmas program.

Without fail every year she would give us the artwork for the program at noon the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. This meant someone from our team would need to work the holiday or that weekend to ensure it got out in time for her program.

For four years I took the brunt if the project as I didn't want my team to work their holiday weekend and my family always celebrated Thanksgiving later to make scheduling easier for everyone.

Me and the team constantly complained to the owner that this client was a nightmare and not worth our time. It was a large order for us but we didn't feel it was worth the headache. The owner's anniversary typically fell along this project timing and he was almost always out of town . The 4th year he wasn't so I decided to speak with him the Wednesday before Thanksgiving telling him we needed to fire the client.

He was reluctant and downplayed our complaints and said she wasn't that bad. To which I replied, "Since this project isn't that difficult I figured I would let you know I'm taking this week off next year."

The owner's face went pale. He's gut response was, "Why would you screw me over like that?"

To which I replied, "I don't understand what you mean? I'm giving you a whole year to prepare for me to not be here. It isn't that big of a deal and she isn't that bad so a year should be enough time for you to figure it out."

Mind you I love working for the company, the owner just got greedy sometimes and would put sales above the team and one of the reasons why he specifically hired me is because I would fight back when I thought he was wrong. That day was the day I decided I had enough and we went toe to toe arguing for about an hour in front of the team about my early vacation notice.

He finally relented and was stubborn and ready to prove me wrong.

A year later he finally got a taste of his own medicine and did not like it. I ended up working leading up to the holiday break because though I was adamant I wasn't going to work the holiday again I couldn't leave my team hanging. Yet again, right on time this Karen doesn't give us the files until Wednesday at noon before Thanksgiving.

The owner went in person to speak to her. I don't know the full conversation but it basically came down to her calling him a complete idiot for not being able to manage around HER bad project management.

He came back to the shop in literal tears stating he had never been treated so horribly in his life. In that moment I asked him if I could fire her as a client. I could tell he wasn't excited to admit he was wrong a year into this argument we had but he sheepishly nodded yes.

He ended up finishing the project over the holiday for her that year to not ruin our reputation with the school as we did a ton of work for other departments but the next year I was the only one who got to speak to Karen. She asked for an estimate and I gave her the price and told her if files came any later than "X" date I would charge her $3,000 + $1,000 more for every day she was late.

She flipped out and asked for the owner and I got to pull the, "He put me in charge, I'm the manager now." Card and told her she could kick dirt if she didn't like it.

Our team had a literal celebration when she said she would go somewhere else to do the project. It is probably one of my proudest moments as a leader fighting for myself and my team.

[u/OriginalDanBlah]

Best thing you could’ve done. Make HIM deal with the problem so he can fine out it’s not “just a small inconvenience”.

Also, if the school has a relationship with your company, the principal and superintendent might wanna know how a representative of their school treats people that is doing school business

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/OriginalDanBlah]

That last year a formal complaint was filed against her because we had such a good relationship with the marketing department. We stopped working with her but word on the grape vine was all her external communication was revoked and she was put on notice to get ready for retirement.

She was a tenure professor so firing her was not really an option but early retirement and being squeezed by the President was.

[u/Used_Clock_4627 → u/lil_tink_tink]

Tenure professor, that explains everything. I live in a four university town. We have WAAAYYY too many of these types.....

[u/ThatOneWIGuy → u/Used_Clock_4627]

The college I went to didn’t have tenure. They did have life long benefits for individuals that met certain requirements though. One part of those requirements is maintaining professionalism, one of those professors who retired wanted IT help but began being very rude to the Helpdesk staff who he was told were not the right people to go through for help. He had a talk with the It director that ended with contacting us again could mean the end of your support and even other benefits. I prefer places that hold you accountable regardless of position and who you are.

[u/T_Sealgair → u/Used_Clock_4627]

Tenure used to have a real purpose. It (generally) is abused now.

[u/eightbyeight → u/T_Sealgair]

Tenure was supposed to protect academic freedom but it unfortunately also protect this type of toxic behaviour

[u/Atlas-Scrubbed → u/eightbyeight]

Tenure STILL protects academic freedom - and in fact is still a major issue. The US science community is very fad oriented- because the federal government funding is fad oriented. Without tenure, universities would be firing older faculty to hire the fad followers.

The number of toxic faculty is actually pretty small, < 10% from what I have witnessed. (They make up for it by being extra toxic…)

[u/robottosama → u/Atlas-Scrubbed]

Yep. Every other job post in my field specifies that they want someone who does AI something or other, which of course just means playing with neural nets. They don't give a shit about the other 99% of AI research, nor anything else in the universe that matters. It's all because admin are corporate clowns, same as the CEOs ordering their employees to use AI tools...just because.

[u/LetMeBeAngry → u/Atlas-Scrubbed]

From what I’ve heard, the requirements to become tenured at a university include producing 3 peer-reviewed hypotheses in 10-ish years, which is a workload harsh enough to mean that professors are there at the lectures but TAs do all the rest of the work. Basically, to get a tenure, you have to neglect your students.

That does not protect academic freedom; it limits what professors can actually do for their students.

Teaching well is at risk of being fired. Neglecting your teaching responsibilities protects your job. Make it make sense.

[u/Atlas-Scrubbed → u/LetMeBeAngry]

Your understanding is wrong. (Maybe it is correct for some fields- but certainly not most) Tenure reviews that I have been part of (and often led) look at three aspects of a scholar’s work: research, teaching and service. You need to be very good or excellent in both research and teaching.

I am going to focus on teaching, because people seem to misunderstand it the most. To teach an hour long class the first time, takes about 10 hours of ‘prep’ time. Most classes meet 3 hours per week - or 30 hours of prep time per week. This doesn’t include any grading! Nor does it include any research. Why so much time? In most colleges, students come with a wide variety of backgrounds and experiences. The topics being taught are often complex. Thinking about what the students do know and how they think, and from that weaving together a cogent discussion of the topic is hard. (The second time you teach the same course, you can drop that to 3 hours of prep. The third, 30 minutes…) Now consider grading. I’d often teach classes of 300. I might assign 20 homework questions per week. 6000 questions to grade. Each takes ~1 minute… for easy classes, or 100 hours of grading. Even with classes of ‘just’ 30, we are still talking about 10 hours of work per week. (Smaller classes usually mean more complex topics) Still no research…

If you don’t believe this, ask your preacher how long they spend putting together a 10 minute sermon. Often Hours. Communication to large groups is tough.

[u/DM46 → u/Atlas-Scrubbed]

Craziest part of this comment is thinking that everyone has a personal relationship with a preacher.

My bet is that 80% of the people on Reddit don’t even know what their local pastor looks like let alone their name

[u/TheHungryBlanket → u/LetMeBeAngry]

Every university, every college within a university, and every department within that college could be different.

If you are at a top research institution, typically you should be publishing two or three articles per year. If you are at a more teaching, focused university, those numbers are decreased.

Three publications in 10 years is extremely low. I’m guessing you know somebody at a small low-ranked institution.

[u/1dzMonkeys → u/T_Sealgair]

(cries in adjunct)

[u/BenchConscious1003 → u/T_Sealgair]

I'm curious.

I had friend who was a fellow at Kings College Cambridge. Before that he lectured at Adelaide university. He told me that academics are poorly paid at both of those places. Is it the same in the US? The same goes for high schools.(or at least it did)

That situation confuses me. In my opinion, teaching the young isa noble profession which should be deeply respected and highly paid. Seems to me that is seldom the case in many (most?) countries.

I revered a couple of my lecturers/tutors at university. That was not the case at the Catholic boys school I attended. As a group, they were incompetent and sadistic bullies who I despised.

[u/filton02 → u/BenchConscious1003]

Fun fact: the highest paid public employee in about 46 or 47 states is a state college employee, problem is they're all basketball or football coaches..

[u/Atlas-Scrubbed → u/filton02]

Add hockey coaches and I think you hit 50 out of 50. (Every once in a while, a big name surgeon will make it to the top …)

[u/equine-shoe-part → u/filton02]

9 of the top 10 salaries at my uni are coaches. The chancellor is the only academic and he's #8

[u/Development-Feisty → u/filton02]

I don’t know, I live in a shitty city where they don’t control the Police putting in for hours they don’t work and we have several patrol officers, not detectives, who make over $1 million a year with the overtime added in

[u/amandaanddog → u/Development-Feisty]

I’m sorry, WHAT

[u/whiskymakesmecrazy → u/BenchConscious1003]

I can attest to Canada not the States (and as far as I know we pay better than them for primary/secondary school)

I am a trades instructor at a union training centre and after 2 years as an instructor, I am making more than my dad was as a principal of a primary school when he retired 4 years ago.

The only thing I can say about university level is that I have a bunch of friends/family with graduate degrees and none of them are in academia.

[u/CarthasMonopoly → u/BenchConscious1003]

In the US teachers are famously not paid well. Even at the college/university level unless you have been a professor for many years you aren't getting paid nearly as much as you would if you took your knowledge and degree into a relevant industry.

[u/GringoinCDMX → u/CarthasMonopoly]

Most of my professors that made money was because they did research and had been around for a while. The adjuncts made less than I did waiting tables 2 nights a week.

This was 10+ years ago but I doubt much has changed.

[u/Ancient-Afternoon374 → u/GringoinCDMX]

I made $18,000 a year doing TA work, teaching 3 labs, and running an ecology lab. And yet my aunt accused me of ripping off the government and science is a lie bought with soros bucks. Years later I'm still waiting for my soros bucks Karen.

[u/GringoinCDMX → u/Ancient-Afternoon374]

Yeah that's absolutely wild. Educators across the board need to be paid more. I remember one of my professors wanted me to go into academia and I told him I actually wanted to make money.

He worked between 2 universities commuting from NYC 2 days a week and worked as a barista.

[u/Atlas-Scrubbed → u/BenchConscious1003]

I just retired as a professor at a R1 university (very high research activity). Think big name universities. Tenure-track faculty make a living wage at many such institutions, but not what you can get in private industry. (Factor of 2-3 lower.). Many top universities in high tech oriented locations have faculty ghettos - where the university owns the land, (but not the house) and they only let faculty buy the houses. This is very common with California R1 universities.

[u/FinalStryke → u/BenchConscious1003]

I know a weird amount about American academia despite not being an academic, so I can give a pretty detailed answer.

The pay is garbage, to cut to the chase. Many professors are "adjunct", and are paid based upon how many credit hours they teach, per semester. So, they're usually teaching between multiple junior colleges to keep up with their bills. Tenure and tenure track growing rarer, as tenured professors who retire are simply replaced by adjuncts as a cost saving measure.

I personally feel that universities can be worse. Most courses have "lecture" classes and "lab" classes. Those "labs" are largely taught by graduate students. This is fine enough in language courses, for example, where native speakers are hired. But grad students are barely paid. It's mostly tuition reduction/reimbursement and a little to live on.

Note that wages for "Passion Fields" are typically terrible.

Obviously I'm not an expert and have lots of biases, but it's still a fairly accurate representation.

[u/TGriggs1978 → u/FinalStryke]

My daughter is a grad student and this is 💯 correct. She was responsible for grading literally everything other than the actual tests. Quizzes, homework, discussion questions- all hers to grade and the actual professors (she worked for 2 at the same time) would rarely even look at anything she graded. It was absolutely insane. Now she is a research assistant and is loving that. Graduate assistant? Never again….

[u/pinewind108 → u/FinalStryke]

I was a grad student and taught classes, and while I took mine seriously and did my best for the students, I had professors straight up tell me that my priority should be my research--> my classes--> teaching. There were some grad students who truly put in the minimum. Most made an effort, but good teaching wasn't how you survived.

[u/Mundane-Cloud1995 → u/BenchConscious1003]

Yeah it’s the same in the US, I don’t have enough knowledge on the topic but it’s known educators salaries are lower then you’d expect

[u/waterWizard31 → u/BenchConscious1003]

My late wife had a PhD in Microbiology/Immunology and taught at 3 well regarded Med schools over her career. She had a standing offer from Genentech for double her salary. That gives you an idea of University pay scales. Since she loved teaching and I'm an engineer, she never took them up on it.

[u/popchex → u/BenchConscious1003]

If he was a senior lecturer at Adelaide Uni he would have been making about $130k so I would question what he considers "poorly paid" in general.

[u/pirateadventurespice → u/T_Sealgair]

Yeah, given the current political situation in the US, giving critical researchers career protection to conduct their work is a terrible idea because of this shitty choir director I read about on the internet.

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/pirateadventurespice]

To be clear I'm not against tenure what so ever. I'm just adding clarifying details on how this lady was able to be a monster to so many around her. In any other situation where she didn't have tenure she would have been fired a long time ago.

This happened years ago and the college went through leadership change around this even and the owner (my boss) got a personal apology from the president of the college for her actions and asked us not to sever the entire relationship.

We had no problems with any of the other departments, this lady was just a nightmare of a person.

[u/pirateadventurespice → u/lil_tink_tink]

I’m not suggesting you are (though the person I am responding to is). Reddit communities, by and large, poorly understand higher ed and the fight over tenure and its importance right now is critical. If you want to see what happens to research if you remove it, look no further than what is happening in Florida right now.

Based on the president actually apologizing, I’m guessing this was a very small college. Which is awesome! But, for example, my dean’s budget registers in the hundreds of millions; they are absolutely not caring about a choir director’s print orders and the president surely isn’t.

To be clear, the way you handled it sounds great and I’m sorry that woman was a shithead. She is not a reason to get rid of tenure. :)

[u/Aegi → u/T_Sealgair]

LMAO, people were saying this same anti-worker shit back in the 80's.

Why do you think it is abused more often than not?

Do you have a source? Any data?

[u/jungleboogiemonster → u/Used_Clock_4627]

I've worked at a university for decades. Most professors are great people, but there are a few who are the worst and everyone knows who they are even if they don't want to. For those reading this who aren't familiar with higher Ed, remember these people are not the norm, but oh my, do they ever exist.

[u/HunnyBear66 → u/Used_Clock_4627]

They think their every thought is supreme and the universe revolves around them.

[u/imc225 → u/Used_Clock_4627]

IKR buried the lead/lede

[u/MangoCats → u/lil_tink_tink]

The late fee on the contract seems like something that should have been tried on year 2 instead of 5... You say you'll have this on-time, have it on-time, if you don't you're re-arranging our personnel in a very costly and inconsiderate manner - and there's a charge for that.

I'd give her more like a week earlier deadline (based on previous year's experience and demonstrated costs, monetary and personal, to the business and its employees), and start with $100 for the first day late, $500 for the 2nd day late, $1000 for the 3rd day late, and +$1000 per day beyond that. Late fees must be paid up-front in-full for work on the project to continue. Tell her, honestly, you do the same for every other client who has a history of breaching their side of the contract across a major holiday.

Anybody who follows in her footsteps and pays the late fees, those fees get split among the employees working the job as bonuses.

[u/GraphicArtsFurry → u/lil_tink_tink]

Did you have a back up plan also to warn any other places she would go to for getting the work done if that was possible?

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/GraphicArtsFurry]

We have good relationships with everyone around town. Funny enough my bosses old company took her and they charge double what we did. Still not worth it imo. They are trying to fire her now but she is about to retire so I doubt the account will be that bad going forward.

[u/Justaticklerone → u/lil_tink_tink]

A shame that professors work and claw and fight so hard to reach tenure so that they have job security, then you have supreme bitches like that taking shots at people from the top of the mountain with a gatling gun.

[u/Moon-Runner → u/lil_tink_tink]

More like manure professor.

[u/AngerPancake → u/OriginalDanBlah]

I asked for years for deadlines to be implemented for the team that I work with and management kept saying that it wasn't necessary. A few years ago I got in a car accident a week before end of month and I missed 6 weeks of work. Five people had to come in to do my job, they weren't doing it full time it was five people pitching in. By the time I got back every limitation and deadline I had asked for had been enacted. Turns out that when management has to deal with the problem two months in a row they fix it

[u/blowup_variaty → u/AngerPancake]

I worked the first half of the nightshift at a busy hospital in the labs covering haematology, biochemistry and bloodbank and finishing my shift at 1am. The lovely guy who worked it before me had been forced to cut back because of health issues due to the workload and only worked until 11pm. That ended up being too much for him and he was forced to stop but wasn’t replaced so I was the sole scientist. After a few years there I got pregnant and went on maternity leave but before I went I trained my replacement for a month. They worked the first night solo after I left on leave and resigned in the morning because of the workload. The second time I had maternity leave apparently they had even more problems. When I got back they basically broke legislation by saying I couldn’t go back fulltime because no-one else would put up with the conditions and they couldn’t find anyone else who would do it. The Pathologist and the lab manager refused to acknowledge that at minimum two people were required to cover the nightshift because it was “easy to do crossmatches at the same time as 80 plus tests in each of haematology and biochemistry and you just have to be organised “. I left when I was told that the job was killing me and I’d be dead by 40.
Some places put money over employees and hospitals can be amongst the worst.

[u/utspg1980 → u/OriginalDanBlah]

I worked in a small office within a hospital. For YEARS basically the entire team complained to our manager that our coworker "Girl A" was a constant headache, created drama, made things more complicated than they needed to be, and brought down the morale of the entire dept.

Our manager repeatedly downplayed our complaints.

Our dept was pretty much self-sustaining and we didn't really interact with our boss on a day-to-day basis. She might stop in to say "hi" now and again, but I would easily go a month without any actual work-related interaction with my boss. e.g. status updates, needed her help to fix something, etc.

A new position opens up: assistant to our boss. This person would be in daily direct interaction with our boss. Basically her shadow: helping her complete tasks, etc etc.

Our boss hired Girl A.

Our boss fired Girl A from the company 3 weeks later. Not just said "this isn't working out, let's put you back in your old position." Completely fired her.

So yeah, sometimes there's no other way and you gotta make the boss deal with the problem themselves.

[u/TheEngineer2008 → u/OriginalDanBlah]

Turning a problem into a higher-up's problem works. Kind of like a recent attempt I made to close a bank account. They told me I'd have to go in person to the branch where I opened the account, which was in a different state from where I live now, or that I could send a notarized letter with a bunch of details about the account.

I replied with a polite request that they close the account without all of that, noting that the account had $0 in it and they'd close it eventually. It was closed that same day.

Funny how once it was their problem it wasn't a problem at all. 🤔

[u/Chemical-Demand-5741]

As someone who's been working in the print industry for 25 years - Bravo! Well done. 🙂

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/Chemical-Demand-5741]

It's rough out here for us. 🤣

[u/Chemical-Demand-5741 → u/lil_tink_tink]

Isn't it just? I love how deadlines are more like... Guidelines.

[u/CatmoCatmo → u/Chemical-Demand-5741]

For them? Yes. For you? Absolutely not.

God forbid you don’t have their project done at the exact date and time the client stated they wanted it by, that was obviously chosen based on nothing but wishes, vibes, and/or was pulled out of a hat - AND - regardless of the amount of time that’s physically required for each part to be completed.

[u/KneeDeepInTheDead → u/CatmoCatmo]

Did I say it needs to be done monday? I mean in hands on monday, by the way you gotta ship it across the country. Wait, why should I pay for next day air? Let me speak to your boss.

[u/VulpesSapiens → u/Chemical-Demand-5741]

'I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.' ~Douglas Adams

[u/yagwa → u/Chemical-Demand-5741]

Also as someone who works in print... we stopped catering to these types of people and our business grew. Popular opinion among the sales team is that our customers took us seriously once we took ourselves seriously and stopped running our operation like it's the Krusty Krab. Doing "whatever it takes" for a buck leads to high turnover, burnout, and eating shit on cost overruns.

Now it's pretty boilerplate.

Here is a line item estimate. These are the rates. No you cannot get a better rate unless you'd like to sign a contract with us. Please take note of the rush fees schedule at the bottom.

Here's a copy of our terms. It was written by a lawyer and explains, among other things, that we are only obligated to meet our timing, not your timing. All customers must submit a signed copy with their first job.

Here's our lead time for your job. This was on the original estimate and is measured in whole business days and not calendar dates. This timer does not start until until we have final art files and a PO. No, we will not waive the rush fee because your files were wrong and you had to resubmit.

The only way we go back to "whatever it takes" is if someone signs a contract with us (we have a handful). You give us a guaranteed yearly minimum and the sales guys will probably give you a handy to go with it.

[u/entrepenurious]

i worked as a newspaper printer (hot type, pasteup, pagination, photoshop) for 40 years. i made myself a badge:

THE LACK OF PLANNING

ON YOUR PART

DOES NOT CONSTITUTE

AN EMERGENCY ON MY PART

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/entrepenurious]

YESS! After this event the owner gave me full authority to fire clients. I only fired one other person after her but it felt so good to be vindicated.

[u/greginnj → u/lil_tink_tink]

I have never regretted fighting for my team. It paid off daily. One of my proudest work moments was somebody telling me they'd never had a manager stand up for them like that before.

[u/ballerina22 → u/greginnj]

I stood up (and in front of) my manager for my employees and got fired.

I don't think I've ever been prouder or more touched than when a few employees quit on the spot and walked out with me.

[u/Fun-Leather-1703 → u/ballerina22]

I've done the same three times. It's hurt me in interviews because I'm going to be 100% honest if asked. I'm like olive garden, when you're here you're family. My team is my family. 

Stuck with my last job for 7 years because the owners listened to and trusted me. Business got sold and my job didn't transfer. Don't think I'll ever want to manage anymore. Just give me some bartending shifts a few days a week at somewhere high volume.

[u/Valheru78 → u/greginnj]

I fought for myself and my team, management asked me to find a new job (firing someone with a permanent contract is not easy in my country). The whole team except one person left with me. The one person build a new team, 3 years later he and his new team also left all at the same time. It's a miracle the company still exists in my opinion.

[u/SuperSpecialAwesome- → u/lil_tink_tink]

I only fired one other person after her

Reason being?

[u/sameyeamknot → u/entrepenurious]

I used to work in IT at a newspaper (started out in inserting), and my boss had this printed on a piece of paper stapled to the wall in his office.

[u/GearnTheDwarf → u/entrepenurious]

Been in the industry for 25 years and am 3rd generation (ink is in the blood).

My sign read

WHICH RUSH JOB SHOULD I STOP SO I CAN RUSH YOUR RUSH JOB?

[u/Elminst → u/GearnTheDwarf]

When everything is an emergency, nothing is an emergency.

[u/entrepenurious → u/GearnTheDwarf]

that's a fair question.

[u/CopEatingDonut → u/entrepenurious]

If my manager could read anything but his phone screen, I'm sure he'd have his secretary write up a strongly worded email for him to run through gpt rawdog, no agent.

[u/AspiringTS → u/entrepenurious]

Too wordy.

"Your lack of planning is not my emergency."

[u/drmoocow → u/AspiringTS]

They were a newspaper printer. They get paid by the word.

[u/Dame_Niafer → u/AspiringTS]

It's a saying that's been around for decades in engineering schools. He nailed it. Verbatim.

[u/DoallthenKnit2relax]

Yes, Karen, you CAN go somewhere else. But they won't work with your late submissions either, these are standard operating deadlines. You need to get your end of the project up to speed.

[u/CKRatKing → u/DoallthenKnit2relax]

Bet they call and try to get ops boss to do it last minute when the next place won't put up with her late submission.

[u/Exact-Branch-8365]

My engagement agreement includes an addon for rush jobs. Sounds like OPs shop needs a policy regarding lead time for work. They should have been charging "Karen" an expedite fee from the beginning. It is a great way to train clients. It will cost you $x if I get everything by this date. If I get it later, it will cost $x + $y. Their choice. The fee to expedite does a lot to help the workers feel motivated to work, and get paid, overtime.

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/Exact-Branch-8365]

This! We were a startup when we got her as a client. We were desperate for the work in the early years but by year 4 we were in a much better place and didn't need her business as bad which is why I pushed so hard to fire her.

I knew the owner wouldn't just fire her and he had to experience her terrible treatment himself to believe us. Sometimes people need to unfortunately experience the pain themselves to care enough.

[u/LetReasonRing → u/lil_tink_tink]

This sounds like a good lesson overall for your boss. 

I ran my own business for a while and ran into my share of clients like that. It can be hard in the beginning to realize when you should say no to someone because every scrap of business really matters. But eventually you have to realize that there are some people that just aren't worth dealing with for any amount of money. 

I had one potential wealthy client try to hire me for an annual event. A close colleague of mine had worked with him before. My friend was literally one of the best in our industry, and the client had fired him wrote a scathing two page letter blaming him for all kinds of things that were either physically impossible or didn't make sense at all. He was clearly an unhinged nightmare to deal with. 

When he tried to hire me as the replacement I kept refusing. He eventuality got up to $5,000/day for about 3 weeks worth of work,  and I still refused because my dignity and sanity are worth more than whatever he was willing to pay me. 

[u/Exact-Branch-8365 → u/lil_tink_tink]

It is never too late to reconsider fees for future work. Gotta train your clients.

[u/aquainst1 → u/lil_tink_tink]

Unfortunately, she was a client who was allowed to go her merry way without repercussions, until the owner got a taste of her.

[u/t2nazx2]

Good on you!

[u/klydsp]

This is the reason why I like being in a small agency office. My boss is present on day to day happenings, and if a client becomes a problem they are told to go elsewhere. I love making that note in their file to do not contact in the future and cancelling their accounts.

[u/delulu4drama]

Bet she’s singing the blues now 🎶

[u/michael128141]

I would KILL to have a boss that stands up for me as an employee.

Those are my literal dreams.

[u/trappedinatoaster → u/michael128141]

This guy really didn't, though. The only reason his boss did anything about this shitty client was to win an argument. He listened to his employees year after year telling him she was terrible & made their lives shitty. His answer was "deal with it lol" for years.

The only reason anything changed was the bet OP made. And OP had to argue with the boss "for an hour" to even get that. Then, finally, only when the boss himself deals with the shitty client, does this guy do anything. He didn't advocate for his employees for years and only cared when HE was affected.

[u/Kuneria]

Just wanted to tell you that I am a printer too. Actually typing this from my desk.
I completely relate. We've had customers say they're going somewhere else! then they return a day or two later sheepishly asking if their quote is still valid because no one can get their project done in the timeline they want for the price they want. Pay the rush charge or we're not doing your dumb lil booklets by tomorrow
The worst is when the most annoying customer leaves to a different print shop then a month later show up again because the other print shop fired them as a customer

[u/Hoonbernator]

The point that technical people start becoming commercial people is when they realise you don’t need to say no, you just set a F.O. price and if the client strangely accepts the crazy price, whelp… margins be good.

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/Hoonbernator]

Yeah someone else commented that I didn't actually fire her. Which technically is true I gave her the PITA (Pain in the ass) pricing and if she took it I was going to ask for bonuses for the team.

I know some people think I'm some unicorn manager but I come from extreme poverty and have busted my ass my whole life. My parents hated authority of any kind and instilled that in me - I just managed to take that hate and turn it into being a better leader in spite of my hate for bad leaders.

[u/knightfelt → u/lil_tink_tink]

This is good. I was going to say that jacked up prices still only benefit the owner but giving the penalties out as team bonuses is a great idea.

[u/narielthetrue]

It took me far longer than I’d like to admit to remember that the US Thanksgiving is near the end of November, not the first half of October. “That’s 2 months, what do you mean a tight schedule?!”

[u/T_Sealgair → u/narielthetrue]

Also, it's not unusual for XMas programs like this to start right after Thanksgiving. So I'm sure Karen wanted the programs by the Saturday after the Thursday of TG.

[u/AngryRaptor13 → u/T_Sealgair]

Maybe even by the Friday

[u/Superb_Raccoon]

Did you give her the name of your worst enemy?

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/Superb_Raccoon]

Our shop actually used her name in place of "Karen" as a flag for clients that are difficult.

[u/Zestyclose-Item-3127 → u/lil_tink_tink]

Those are the best. We have a former employee whose name gets used in a similar fashion.

[u/pie-en-argent → u/Zestyclose-Item-3127]

When I was in accounting, we had one client expecting $1 billion in revenue starting from zero after seven years. For longer than that, they were our nickname for clients with absurd projections.

[u/ReturnOfSeq → u/lil_tink_tink]

Oh shit, now you’ve got me trying to remember the specific ‘Karen’ names I’ve run into.

[u/GulliverGrazerson]

It’s an absolutely wonderful feeling having your boss’s backing to make that decision!

I worked for a photo lab that had a 24 hour minimum turnaround policy, even though we could usually easily do 1 hour, because of ONE client who would send hundreds of files right before close and want them all carefully color corrected, printed perfectly, and then shipped to her at whatever event she was at with arrival the following morning.

She kept breaking the rule, even after we explained that it was in place specifically for her. She’d send the files half an hour before the UPS in our shopping plaza closed and insist they had to go out that night.

Eventually she tried it the night before Thanksgiving and I decided I had had enough. Texted my boss and she backed me up. Told the woman we couldn’t help her because we were closed the next day and a 24 hour minimum would mean they wouldn’t be ready until late on Friday.

She called endlessly for the rest of the time we were open and an hour after we closed while I was tidying up, trying to convince me personally to drive her prints to an open shipping place on the other side of town after I got off work. It was pretty funny listening through the messages later.

[u/IW-X6]

Look at me, I am the captain now.

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/IW-X6]

https://imgflip.com/i/b2eyg3

[u/Honest_Honey8615]

I was not expecting this to be such a great story. That was an awesome way to handle a tough situation. Way to go!

[u/Bleezy79]

That Karen was purposefully giving you things late just to mess with you. It was on purpose and she knew what she was doing. A true Karen. Im glad it only took 5 years to get it fixed. lol

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/Bleezy79]

You don't even know the half of it. This lady knew all the tricks too. When we found out the files were going to be late we asked when we should expect them. The Monday of thanks giving she said, "I haven't even started the artwork yet."

I had just read "Never split the Difference" by Chris Voss and decided to try out some of his tactics so I said, "How can you expect us to print these in time if you haven't even started the files?"

The crocodile tears that followed and her telling us she has skipped therapy to be at that meeting. All I could think was, You should have went to therapy, you need it... 🫩

[u/fun_boat → u/[deleted]]

this whole story is so goddamn dumb. it feels like it was written by a child.

[u/ConcussionSports]

As a former sign shop pre-press person, I know these customers/clients all too well. I can still hear their voices... The bad art. The ridiculous deadline. I'm so happy to be out.

[u/NSMike]

I have a feeling you could have told her to kick rocks and easily suffered no reputational damage. Everyone at that school almost certainly already hated her.

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/NSMike]

We only learned they all hated her after we ended the relationship. It was like a well known secret and everyone seems to come out of the woodworks telling us they hated her. Lol

[u/Substantial-Tart-464]

yeah if some other company can live what you went thru then good bless since it seems they won't change.

[u/spargel_gesicht]

I used to work in consulting and we were pretty liberal with “we need the data by date X to deliver by date Y.” Hard line should have been taken years ago. Set expectations in writing! And then follow up on date X that you need it by EOD or it ain’t happening!

[u/selftaughtgenius]

More companies need to fire difficult/impossible clients.

Refusing to ever say “no” to anyone except the people “below” you has created generations of problem customers, as well as management.

More customers need to hear “no”, and more upper management needs to listen to genuine feedback from their employees and not just surround themselves with yes men.

[u/SuckerForNoirRobots]

Sounds like that boss owed you and your team several years worth of apologies for dealing with her

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/SuckerForNoirRobots]

Oh yeah I no longer work for him but we all still give him shit about it all the time. He has been a good sport about it.

[u/shillyshally]

I was in charge of day to day operations, my first job in printing, my first job ever back when affirmative action was just getting off the ground. I made sure every job was scheduled, rush fees charged if the customer was late and I had one client fired for not knowing how to prep a job properly. It was an ancient religious concern and I brought them out of near bankruptcy into a making healthy profit by creating production standards based on reality and actually CHARGING MONEY, no more Ms Nice Girl. AA's were my favorite, there were always AAs.

[u/KneeDeepInTheDead]

As someone who works in printing, I feel like this is 90% of the customers. Always in a rush and its somehow your fault. Oh btw can I get a price break?

[u/2006CrownVictoriaP71]

You pretty much described every choir director I have ever met. I wonder why they’re all like that? It’s pretty much the least important role in a school.

-FWIW, I was never in choir. I played the sax. My interactions with choir directors were all in passing.

[u/Kind-Philosopher5077]

Did you take the week off or not? It sounded like you gave a years notice and then worked 3 days you should've been on vacation.

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/Kind-Philosopher5077]

Problem with being a good manager. I wanted to screw the owner not my team. The owner worked that holiday weekend instead of me. The year notice was more of bait I knew the owner would take because he is stubborn I knew he would want to prove me wrong after I called his BS saying the client wasn't as hard to deal with as we were making it out to be.

Either way it was my first Thanksgiving holiday I got to myself in 4 years and I got to fire the client so felt like I won on both fronts.

[u/Qwijibot64]

on behalf of former pre-press staff everywhere have an upvote :-) i wish i could give 1000

[u/Kerry_Maxwell]

I've worked in printing for over four decades, and have worked for some of the largest printers on the planet. Having to give basically a year notice for vacations that fall during a known busy period or specific recurring projects is pretty typical. Granted the projects in question were typically on a much larger scale, but there was plenty of petty and arbitrary deadlines that needed to be met too. But pretty cool that you got to remove this thorn in your side.

[u/jayjaym]

Nothing changes until the right person feels the pain. In this case it was the owner. Otherwise he would have been happy enough for this to go on forever.

[u/DixieFlatlineXIV]

I work in a small college print shop and our choir director does this all the friggin time! The concert will be Friday and he'll drop off the program the day before and expect everything the next morning, folded and ready to pass out. Must be a choir director thing.

[u/euhbebe]

OMG my high school band director was a Karen. In the literal and figurative sense. This story has given me ptsd.

[u/Woogedywoogedy]

😁 Good work!

[u/Imaginary-Yak-6487]

That’s the way to do it. At my job, they have centralized maintenance & there’s like 4 Maint guys left now.

The clients are pissed at us & we gave no control over it. We have to tell them to enter work orders through the client portal & Maint is at our site once a week.

The uppers thought this was the best idea since sliced bread. A few of us manger’s said this is the most stupidest thing ever. We got in trouble. Told to find other employment if we didn’t like it. That’s the way it is.

Now we direct our clients to call the corporate office. We used to send an email ahead saying hey you’re fixen to get a call. We don’t now. They can deal with it now.

[u/StoicJim]

You should put a red K on her forehead to warn off other contractors.

[u/Philbertthefishy]

We had a similar choir director at our school. He was obscenely entitled and demanding, and when he fucked up and forced to resign, we were so relieved.

[u/CarpenterGold1704]

ooooh. i also worked in a small print shop (retired four months ago) and we had a similar customer. I booked vacation time, and the customer came in and when we told her that "no, we cant turn your annual report around in one week" and that I was going to be on vacation... she gave us the spiel "you know i come in this time every year". Well it turns out we managed to get the first proof to her before the end of the week... but guess what... she was too busy and was going to be away on vacation so now it could wait.

i dont miss her.

[u/Worried-Bicycle-7110]

I approve of this message.

[u/GunnarKaasen]

“Look at me! I am the captain now.”

[u/Phoneas__and__Frob]

Oh that many knew already, he just didn't want to admit it! Lol

Like, hey buddy, what's with the long, pale face? I thought you said she wasn't that bad? Lol

[u/SethBurrow]

A few years ago I got concert tickets 6 months in advance for my absolute favorite band of all time. Told the boss “Hey, it’s 6 months away. I need Jan. 29th off. I’ll remind you as it comes up.”

I wrote that bitch on a post-it and stuck it to the schedule board. Even still, they tried telling me I “HAVE TO BE IN ON THE 29th”.

So I put in my 2 weeks.

[u/Sabin10v2]

In the 25 years I have been in print, we have had to fire a few clients. We're generally very accommodating at my shop but, if someone is disrespectful to the staff, my manager has no problem cancelling their job on the spot and telling them we will no longer take any orders from them. Being asked to cut their job in to half inch strips of paper while they are still standing at the counter is the absolute best schadenfreude you can imagine.

[u/fandomnerdgirl]

I also work in a print place and its crazy how many people want things by a certain date and then get annoyed that they've not left enough time for it to go through production, like dude we have other customers to deal with, youre not special 😅

[u/epoof]

Well done!! 

[u/Geminii27]

I couldn't leave my team hanging.

This is never a thing in employment. If you're part of a sport team, then maybe. But unless you own part of the employer's business, it's not up to you to make sure there's sufficient manpower/resources to cover things the employer wants done.

[u/DoppelFrog]

What did you maliciously comply with?

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/DoppelFrog]

Our vacation notice policy and technical admitting to the owner in that notice she was an easy client like he had said.

[u/squeasy_2202 → u/DoppelFrog]

Maliciously complied with unspoken rule of this sub about only posting creative writing.

[u/Mods-R-Gay1122 → u/DoppelFrog]

Office politics, technicalities of leave, the boss’ hubris… I could go on.

Do you normally struggle this much with reading comprehension?

[u/GerkDentley → u/Mods-R-Gay1122]

That's not malicious compliance. Malicious compliance is following the rules, often literally, to their natural but undesired ends.

[u/DoppelFrog → u/Mods-R-Gay1122]

Not as much as you do.

[u/G0ttaca7ch3mall → u/DoppelFrog]

Exactly, good story I’m really happy for OP they won over their boss and the bad customer on this one. But this isn’t even close to malicious compliance.

[u/forsonaE]

How does one look like a Karen? I feel like many people have a different definition of what that would mean so I'm gonna need some more descriptors here

[u/AccomplishedIgit → u/forsonaE]

Blond with the short slanted cut around the face, possibly shaved in back. How do you not know this?

[u/_BrokenButterfly → u/forsonaE]

The "may I speak to the manager" haircut. This is a longstanding part of the meme.

[u/Aimless_Nobody → u/forsonaE]

example here

[u/Mysterious-End7800 → u/forsonaE]

Sounds like a question a Karen would ask.

[u/forsonaE → u/Mysterious-End7800]

But wouldn't I know what they look like if I am one? You guys aren't thinking this through!

[u/less_unique_username → u/forsonaE]

Here’s Karen Durgaryan, General and Music Director of the Armenian National Opera and Ballet Theatre

[u/forsonaE → u/less_unique_username]

Thanks, this story makes sense to me now. I'm now a full believer.

[u/Vast_Professor7399 → u/forsonaE]

Because you saw her face?

[u/Cykoh99 → u/Vast_Professor7399]

Not a trace of doubt in my mind.

[u/zippoguaillo → u/forsonaE]

Go look at the profile pic of r/fuckyoukaren

[u/icehot54321 → u/forsonaE]

For people that never learned to use the internet: 

Go to any search engine .. put in what you are looking for and then click ‘images’ 

[u/forsonaE → u/icehot54321]

I tried it and it didn't work?

[u/HonkHonkBeach → u/forsonaE]

Fucking cackling.

[u/Best-Constant1022 → u/forsonaE]

its an evolutionary thing that lets us detect these people, you can also see vampires/parasites

[u/Swiftraven → u/forsonaE]

Think Kate from her John and Kate Plus 8 days. That haircut especially.

[u/pennypaul83 → u/forsonaE]

kate from kate plus 8 is a karen mascot

[u/misanthrope2327 → u/forsonaE]

It's the haircut. And probably some reading bitch face and usually some active bitch face too. 

[u/ElginPelican123]

“Face went pale” 🤣

[u/hyperlobster → u/ElginPelican123]

“Literal tears”.

[u/StrangerInTheCon]

"He put me in charge, I'm the manager now."

Chills, literal chills.

[u/Free-Pound-6139]

For four years I took the brunt if the project a

So it is your fault since you never pushed back?????

[u/lil_tink_tink → u/Free-Pound-6139]

We were a small business and really needed that account. When we finally outgrew her is when I pushed back.

I'm not going to let go my team because if this one nightmare client. I'll shield them from the client as long as possible but it got to a point where I couldn't handle it any longer and I wasn't going to let them suffer because the owner didn't want to admit she needed to be fired

[u/MaliciousCompliance-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post has been removed because it did not forward the discussion and/or instead consisted of only insults, which is not allowed as per subreddit rules.

All violators of this rule are subject to bans at the discretion of a moderator.

[u/Parking_Gene_649]

sounds like a nice long getaway

[u/DaneAlaskaCruz]

Hell yeah, took long enough!

I do some photography on the side and occasionally book photo shoots for clients.

I always give 100% to my hobby and my prices are quite reasonable, though they're not posted and are usually negotiable beforehand.

After dealing with a few nightmare clients with unrealistic expectations and bad attitude during the photoshoots, I've started firing them as clients.

I delivered the photos as we agreed upon. But the next time they asked me for another photoshoot, I had new prices.

Triple or quadruple what I charged before.

Basically a fuck off price.

When asked why it was so much, I said that I had new camera bodies, new lenses, a higher end computer for photo editing, and also saving to take some photography classes.

Some have asked for a quick session, "just one or two photos, that's it!" But I said that the price didn't change.

They all fucked off and didn't hire me, hahaha.

I don't need the money and I'm just doing it for fun and to pay for my equipment. Don't need the headache that these clients brought in the past.

[u/cat-ctus-es]

This is my dream. 🥲

[u/KaleidoscopeSilly797]

Very pleasing read!

[u/jdovejr]

I really don’t understand people like this. Does she think she’s special? Probably.

Screwing with holidays is a special kind of asshole.

[u/DoomsdayDonuts]

The fact it went on so long is nuts. That policy should have been established the first time someone exploited there being a lack of such a policy. Lead times and turnaround time established in business days, rush charges for anything on shorter notice, refusal to work on holidays, etc.

[u/LetterPerfect_throw]

Nice! So far this is the best I have read today.

[u/EightiEight]

Nice job having everyone's backs

[u/Lunamax_432]

I love this entire story. Good for you!

[u/Jimm120]

loook...the way i look at it, it is someone that gets the work done with the students that monday/tuesday/wednesday.

There's literally no way of getting it before wednesday unless they use up time from the previous week in the class.

or something like that

[u/t3m3r1t4]

This was such a pleasure to read.

[u/justaheatattack]

Look at me.

I'M THE MANAGER, NOW.

[u/Jar_of_Cats]

Did happen to find out who happened to get the business to find out how it went over?

[u/Fabulous_Feed_6223]

You should be proud of yourself. This is fantastic! I felt joy for you.