It's possible they mean AFTER. The sheer quantity of marvel content afterwards means even if I cared enough to follow it after the saga ended I wouldn't be able to
Don't forget you needed to watch z show on Disney+ for those 2 episodes of crossover and all the context the rest of the episodes give to the crossover
It was content overload and why even now I've not fully gotten back into the MCU
This was my problem. After however long without seeing shang chi or moon knight, after finding out the blade and black knight teases were never coming, then we had thors "kid" and hercules, it just felt like there was no point in getting hyped or invested. I got burned too much
Black Knight, meant be set up in post Blade MCU (most likely scrapped until Midnight Suns post Secret Wars—- if ever)
Hercules might still happen, in a post Secret Wars MCU
My actual response:
But yes Disney Marvel went gung ho on audiences never getting enough of the MCU, but boy they did they get lazy, and forgot to keep audiences happy/interested. Franchise fatigue.
That is another problem yeah, if a plot gets dropped you feel like you wasted your time catching up cuz you watched stuff in a hurry to be ready for something that never came rather than watching it whenever you felt like it cuz there was no pressure
Anyone else notice that none of the new characters from the D+ shows were announced in Doomsday? It's like every plotline that developed for Kang Dynasty was completely abandoned.
And the CGI getting sloppier due to pace of production and budget. I don’t need to be behind on multiple poorly done superhero shows at the same time. It got to feeling like a gatcha game where you had to tune in daily just to keep up with the wave of content even if it wasn’t great. Because my time is limited and I had better shows/movie that I wanted to watch more.
Yeah, I think it was Disney getting too greedy (shocker, right?). Once they started tying everything together in hope you’d have to go to every movie and as well as get a Disney subscription so you can’t sue them if your wife dies…
I loved Hawkeye and Moonknight because they were largely disconnected stories that built off the established universe, that should be the formula for Marvel shows in my opinion. Just added world-building and deepening of the lore instead of trying to make everything matter to everything else
Edit: Daredevil Born Again does this well too, but I started wondering where the fuck Spider-Man was during all of it lmao
I loved Hawkeye and Moonknight because they were largely disconnected stories that built off the established universe, that should be the formula for Marvel shows in my opinion.
This formula was the exact reason (most of) the Netflix shows were successful. When those shows got the axe, I knew that was likely signaling the end of those types of self contained stories involving Marvel characters.
Daredevil and Punisher have never been my faves in the comics, but were the two shows I enjoyed the most, even more than most of the newer movies for the exact reason that they were well written and weren't trying to tie into everything else. They were just good stories driven by a smaller cast of characters.
The thing that made the big comic events like the Infinity Gauntlet and Secret Wars so great back in the day were that they were things that occurred rarely. More recently, it seems like there's some big event happening once per year and it's exhausting. I stopped reading comics because every time I turned around there was some other thing that was going to "change the Marvel Universe forever" and I just couldn't do it anymore.
The movies are following that model where there's always some big catastrophe they're building up towards. The Infinity Saga ended and before we as an audience had a chance to breathe, they started throwing Secret Invasion stuff at us.
And honestly, I wasn't even a fan of Infinity War or Endgame. I hated how they changed the entire Thanos story from the comics. No, I didn't need an exact interpretation as I know that would be impossible, but changing it from Thanos collecting the Infinity Gems himself to sending lackeys to do it for him took a lot of the wind out of the character for me. They also completely dropped the ball on Adam Warlock (one of my few critiques of the GoTG movies) and characters like Silver Surfer and Mephisto, pivotal characters in the comics story arc, were completely absent. I know in the case of SS it had to do with rights and I wouldn't have even minded so much if they'd stayed more true to some of the other elements, but all these things combined just annoyed me so much that it kind of ruined the whole experience for me.
Making Thanos some rando cosmic warlord who wanted balance in the universe was the absolute lamest motivation they could have come up with and I'll die on that hill.
Sorry, I just realized this turned into an entire rant I hadn't planned on.
TL;DR: The shows should be small, disconnected stories so we can enjoy the characters facing non-apocalyptic threats.
I had a feeling it was trying to imitate references in comics but at least the comics helped you get the reference by using these yellow text boxes "as seen in Spiderman Issue No. ___" but the movies don't even have these which I hate a lot.
Same. I still haven’t been able to catch up on Daredevil or Punisher. I haven’t followed Echo, Secret Invasion, Agatha All Along, What If seasons 2 and 3, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, x-Men 97 and so much more.
Very few of them were dependant on eachother at all, to a fault actually. There was lots of content but even when there were connecting threads, they were handwaved away.
I think it's more that we were given too much too quickly after the infinity war saga ended. It was around then that we got a ton of TV shows added to the canon in addition to multiple movies per year. I can only speak for myself, but it was far too much for me to care to watch, especially since it felt like the main story had already ended
That’s exactly why I stopped watching, they were releasing like 3 shows at a time and a movie every couple months or so when it used to take longer from movie to movie, suddenly you had to watch it all because some stuff wouldn’t make sense in the movies if you hadn’t watched the shows, Multiverse of Madness and Wandavision for example. It got too overwhelming too fast, and it’s not like life stopped just so we could catch up with Marvel either.
Also, I feel like the Ironheart show came out of nowhere? I don’t remember seeing any announcements or trailers or anything, maybe it’s just because I stopped caring at that point, but it really felt like Disney didn’t care to do much for it (I get it’s just a show vs a movie but I swear I still see Wandavision and Agatha stuff everywhere, but no mention of Ironheart)
ETA: my family stopped watching because after the death of Tony and Natasha they just didn’t care about the others anymore
Movies:
Black Widow,
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings,
Eternals,
Spider-Man: Far From Home
Spider-Man: No Way Home
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Thor: Love and Thunder
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever.
Series:
WandaVision
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
Loki Season 1
What If...? Season 1,
Hawkeye
Moon Knight
Ms. Marvel
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law
along with the special Werewolf by Night
Phase 5 Movies:
Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
The Marvels
Deadpool & Wolverine
Captain America: Brave New World
Thunderbolts
Series:
Secret Invasion,
Loki Season 2
What If...? Season 2,
Echo,
Agatha All Along,
Eyes of Wakanda,
Daredevil: Born Again Season 1
Phase 6:
Movies & Series:
The Fantastic Four: First Steps,
Ironheart,
Wonder Man,
Daredevil: Born Again Season 2,
Spider-Man: Brand New Day,
VisionQuest
All this in 10 years, while 10 years is a lot this is also A LOT of stuff
People will tell you that you don’t need to watch every show to get what’s happening with the movies but I can’t imagine watching Doctor Strange:MoM without seeing Wandavision.
It’s the same reason I skipped the new Captain America because I didn’t care to watch the “Bucky and the winter soldier show”. At the same time if that had been a movie I probably would’ve watched that if for no other reason than I did like those characters and a 2 hours movie is just less of a commitment.
I liked Captain marvel but didn’t watch “the marvels” because coming of age story about a teenage girl discovering her powers across a Disney + series really doesn’t appeal to me as an adult man and I don’t know how much context they expect to bring into it.
But to be honest most of the movies I skipped because I heard they weren’t good (so yeah backs up the argument it’s bad writing)
From The First Avenger to Far From Home, I watched every MCU movie in theaters, usually opening weekend. I watched Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter, a few of the NetFlix Shows, and the pilot of Inhumans.
Then, between moving to a new house, the pandemic, and starting a new relationship, I just didn't feel like keeping up with MCU stuff. When we got Disney Plus, my now-wife wanted to check out the marvel films. So we did through Infinity War and went to go see No Way Home in theaters, but even that felt like I was missing shards of context.
So I decided to launch back in, and hoo boy. It's felt like an unpaid job at times trying to catch up. There's enough that's been enjoyable to keep me going, but the sheer breadth is wild.
In fairness, you could have watched the new Captain America without watching Falcon & The Winter Soldier because it pretty much meant nothing and left Sam right where he was when the Endgame ended: With the shield, taking Steve's place.
It was just so badly written that it made me, who thought Sam in the MCU as Captain America felt like a logical successor to Steve, shouldn't have been after all, and Bucky should have replaced him (if anyone). Truth is, neither Sebastian Stan nor Anthony Mackie carry the same gravitas as Chris Evans. At least, IMO.
This is what did it. That we got one Avengers movie and it was good and the movies leading up to it were good was lightning in a bottle. That they were then able to parlay that into the Infinity Saga, go all the way through to Endgame, and stick the landing is nothing short of a miracle. And they just kept chugging out movies and TV shows at breakneck pace without giving the audience any chance to sit and breath with everything that happened.
I think its a lot of things. Firstly after infinity war, most of the original casts barley makes appearances, if they character is alive. And then after infinity war they massively ramped up production, theres way more projects and they its hard to keep up with all the tv shows, like we had mcu tv shows before but they were never required viewing for the movies, now if you don't watch them you feel behind.
I also think infinity war was just the natural jumping off point for most people and Marvel/Disney clearly don't have a new idea for their next ride (i.e. series of movies)
The fatigue with the campiness of all of these movies and shows also has not been addressed. Well, and it became overwhelming to try to keep up with them all - the required watching list for Doomsday is absurd
Disney wants to make as many Marvel movies as possible but there was always a specific tempo to the marvel movies. You had 3 to 4 movies that fed into each avenger film, and that was it.
I saw someone say the MCU is now engaging in the exact problem that comics have, where there's just too much to keep up with, too many retcons and alternative universe bullshit, which is why the MCU originally saw success because they had a very narrow scope and it was easy to keep up.
When you boil it down that much, many things that are not actually similar will sound similar. It's like pointing out that because Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars (and a billion other things) all follow the Hero's Journey pattern so they're all identical. You might be technically right but anyone familiar with them can tell you that A New Hope is not actually like Fellowship of the Ring.
Ngl, Loki, Wanda and Vision and Moon Knight legitimately were great shows, I still don't understand the idea of "Pass on the torch for a new generation" no one asked for that.
I did watch WandaVision & it was fantastic, loki is the only other show I hear good things about but haven't bothered to pick it up. Never heard of moon knight before
I understand why i was confused by brave new world capt-america movie- the movie had continued off of the TV show captain America & the winter soldier i guess.
See- i was able to watch Deadpool and wolverine without feeling like I was missing apparent backstory unlike the captain American brave new world & their TV show before the movie
Until now I didn't know loki was involved with Deadpool
I watched it without watching Wanda vision, and I tbink its both of the most fun shows I watched in years and something people can enjoy Without any knowledge of the MCU at all.
But that said, its more something one of my queer theater friends would recommend rather than one of my comic book friends. So it might not be everyones cup of tea.
I liked the run of tv shows. The Sam wilson cap story arcs are also good, but ive always like captain america. Everything else is just really weak and lacking of substance, or doesnt explore anything interesting.
P.S. the spider man movies have also always managed to stay amazing.
I gave up at the same time, when they started vomiting series on Disney + and movies like no tomorrow.
I quit buying Marvel comics for the same reason: you had to buy (watch) 16 comics (films/series) you didn't care about, to keep up with the current arc.
Fuck that, I only want to watch/read the things I like, not every bit of media you're putting out.
It didn't really matter what they did imo. Endgame was just the perfect ending to the saga, and as soon as I walked out of that theater I was pretty satisfied with the MCU and had had my fill.
It certainly doesn't help that most of the stuff they've pushed out since then is terrible anyway.
To be fair, pretty much this in the comics as well.
I remember a comic segment where the teacher validated the girl's dreams "You can be anything" but she looked dissatisfied because she was fishing for a 'no' as an answer so that she could argue with the tacher.
Finally the teacher relented and said "Fine, you'll never be Iron Man." And then she pretty much went down that line out of sheer pettiness.
The issue is that she was playing around with much better tech, with millions in scholarship cash, and an internship in wakanda and wasnt able to replicate even the most basic shit Tony made
Not to mention IM3, he accomplished more with $200 and a home depot than she did at MIT
IM3 was charming and hella underrated, frankly. The PTSD arc and the whole "he's still a superhero without his suit" bits are done really well.
The bit with that tiny kid being a sidekick or whatever briefly was a bit cliched, and they went down an overly-comedic route with The Mandarin, but overall it was still a really nice way to wrap up the trilogy for the Iron Man character.
I had to Google it, it's yet another terrible Disney+ show.
Apparently, Sacha Baron Cohen (Borat) played Mephisto. I kind of want to see how that worked out. He's a good actor, but pretty much the last person I would guess to be in a MCU movie or show. I don't recognize anyone else in the show.
he nailed mephisto, the show isn't that bad either but they really need better writers. hell for a successor to such beloved heroes you'd need the absolute best writers in the first place.
Sometimes it's a problem where a character will be a minority/woman/etc and the show will have genuine problems... but people will assume all of the criticism comes from racists/sexists.
Then you just argue in circles about whether it's genuinely bad or if people just hate women/BIPOC/LGBT, etc.
Recently I saw a post where a woman influencer was criticised for her actions and many people claimed that a male influencer wouldn't face the same criticism.
It's stupid because I've seen so many people talking about how the culture war is a smokescreen for the class war and yet people eat it up.
No gender war for me, thanks. Only class war, please.
Uhhh of course you'd say that because the upper class are all men!
Sort of "Are you a bot or just influenced by them?" responses.
It's kinda infuriating. They seem to constantly go something like "This is a progress show with women/poc as main cast, ergo if people don't like it they are basement dwelling incels. So why then bother with component writers"
"This show has a poc, female, trans, autistic character with 8 toes on one foot and it's gonna be awesome because of it!"
People criticise that this is clearly just pandering to the current buzzword heavy cultural zeitgeist, and you're being called bigoted for calling a spade a spade.
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was rough at times. I think part of it was that the story was originally about a terrorist trying to start a pandemic, but then the actual pandemic happened, and it had a lot of rewrites, and it showed. I still enjoyed it but it was far from perfect and still not nearly enough to be a core pillar of the MCU.
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was rough at times
Movie should have ended in a closed casket funeral for Sam when he caught a beam swung by a hulk, bare handed, without super soldier serum. Could have given him a hero's sendoff for looking death in the face without super powers- that was his whole thing.
That was Captain America Brave New World. Falcon and the Winter Soldier was the D+ show where Sam and Bucky fight terrorists and also replacement fake Captain America is there.
Though the real reason was they were all in pretty poorly written Disney+ TV shows post Endgame when people where not as hungry for marvel content as they were in the 2010s
Ironheart and Sam Wilson's Captain America were never exactly A-listers either.
She-hulk certainly has her fans and I enjoyed some of her early 2000's comics covering the superhero laws around the time of the first Marvel Civil war.
They'd need to hire good writers that also know the law system that also know comic books. That would want to make a full season or four becauase it's Disney.
You don't need to even know the law to make a good law-based TV show, you just need to actually want to make an entertaining show and not think like a Reddit mod when it comes to the Law.
The She-Hulk writers did not meet either of these.
Didn't the writers of the She Hulk show say they knew nothing about how the law actually works? Like why even make a show about a superhero lawyer if you're not gonna bother to do the proper research on it in the first place...
Jen then breaks fourth wall of the Dick Wolf cold open and cracks a joke about smashing is unironically what she and Matt will end up doing once every episode. “And. It. Gets. Graphic.”
I think that the show needed about 50% less special effects ti really work as what it is, a lighthearted workplace comedy about lawyers.
Having so much special effect work makes a jarring contrast, a bit like if an épisode of Friends was directed by Michael bay.
I'm pretty sure the Backlash would have been much lesser if the show looked more like a mid budget comedy rather than the next big marvel thing.
It was fun. It went over the top in a few places, got a little stupid a couple of times, but generally it was a good standalone show so long as it wasn't required viewing for the greater MCU.
It was great if you were watching it with 0 expectations and going with "I wanna binge watch something, even trashy stuff".
But the bad writing was very.... uhh....
How do I say this without sounding like a bigot :/
Making a mountain out of a molehill by making it seem that the shows identity was "look at all this problems that men impose on us!" Not that the problem topics themselves are insignificant (they should be taken seriously) it was the presentation of it that seemed..... cash grabby.
Like that terrible Star Wars Acolyte: "I wanna write a SW series that is DEI first! And it's entire identity is DEI".
It had NO central focus theme and SEEMED like DEI agenda pushing. Representation of issues for the sake of it. Actually wait, it felt VERY Dustborn adjacent, trying to force discomfort as it's mission.
In a better writing terms: they were PUSHING for "Strong FEMALE lead" instead of "Strong lead, who so happens to be female". Which the latter is what most people want and prefer. It's organic, writers can tell the story how THEY want it and don't need to write AROUND something and think about exclusive WHYS.
Heck, Thunderbolts* had the theme of mental health but it worked because they chose to assemble the cast that had some sort of mental health crisis or problem as a COMPONENT of their characterization, instead of the mental health issue being the whole core personality/identity.
That's what I felt like when I watched She-Hulk. Wanted some sort of semi comedy of super-lawyer and how "hero normed" MCU was going (like My Hero Academia-lite). Got basically bombarded with what seemed to be "look at these list of issues that women face and are looked down upon unfairly, why DEI is important" agenda.
Again, I apologize if I sound discriminatory or trying to minimize the issues that are VERY REAL to women. But it felt like a very "woe is me, because I'm woman with these problems". None of the conflicts even felt organic but forced for the sake of "problem is you're woman who doesn't deserve these powers" strawman punching.
It wasn't even good at attempting to "mock" the recycling agenda at the final episode with the 4th wall break with the very Mary-sue resolution. It actually just felt like terrible self-insert overall.
The fight scene at the end of Norton’s was one of the best super hero fight scenes ever put on theater screen. I wish they could bring that Hulk back full force and not limit it to 2 minutes of screen time
Yeah the issue with the hulk is that the rights to his character and related characters are still owned by universal studios (like sony with spiderman) who won't actually allow for a solo hullk film (at least probably not without an insane amount of money) so instead they have to put him and others like red hulk as side characters in other films.
Waiting for a Marvel movie in the 2000s to the 2010s and the progression of the Avengers movies where they all came together was a totally different experience.
But post Endgame, there was suddenly a lot of content. And then the next big baddie they were working towards had to suddenly get cancelled. All the series and content we had to keep up with got a bit much
It's like when I play a Civlization game on the computer.
The first few eras are amazing: I liked the Iron Man, Thor, Captain American build up. Everything is still new. They keep releasing new content of mostly big-named characters.
The middle loses some of its lustre, but it's mostly still good because I'm still discovering new things: the Avengers movies that combined the other characters. They told some jokes that were easy to follow because there were like 5 movies.
Now, though, we're in the modern age when I know I've won but still need to play for another 3 hours because I can't automate 150 turns to get to my science victory. It's just too much boring stuff to get to the final payout. I'd rather spend the 3 hours doing something else.
I disagree with that. I think ppl still love seeing good marvel content. The problem is... It's just not good.
Take SheHulk for example. Like come the fuck on. A woman gets the powers of Hulk and is automatically better at everything than he is. That's not a Hulk story. A Hulk story is struggling to control your anger and using it in a productive way. She has very little struggles and the ones she does have they wrote it off as she's a woman. women are awesome. It's not entertaining to watch even if you ARE woke.
Saka from the last Airbender was a sexist prick and changed his views of women to become a better leader. It empowered women and was good writing. But She Hulk isn't
Then you got that Iron girl (I forgot her name). She's black and smart as Tony. Cool. That's what gets you to watch it. Then you realize that's all there is to the show.
this bitch had the nerve to say "do you really think Tony would be Ironman if he didn't have the money?" Bitch YES!!! He famously built the suit in a cave with scraps!!! They didn't even think about it when they wrote that line. They just saw the public and went 'hey woke ppl hate the rich. Let's make Tony out to be the bad guy '
There's so many ways to do that but that one.
. Nah
It's not woke that ruins it. it's just bad writing
Edit : I'm getting so many messages that if I want to say something, I ain't gonna be able to reply to it
Nope, it’s not. It’s a She-Hulk story. She-Hulk is not Hulk. She-Hulk historically has self control and regulation. She is goofy and breaks the 4th wall. If you are interested in She-Hulk, they did the character justice, however you feel about the writing. But if you wanted a Hulk story, it’s the wrong show for you.
She-Hulk isn't better than Hulk at everything. She's better at controlling her anger, but Bruce having anger issues has always been part of his character. There's a reason turning into a giant rage monster is specifically his thing.
And even then, she does lose control later in the show when she gets mad enough.
I think ultimately the problem is that people not familiar with the comics assume this is just a "woke" thing where they take an existing character and change their skin color or gender to something besides white male. A large chunk of the audience probably did not know that She-Hulk is a completely separate character and dates back to 1979. They just see the show and go "oh I guess they said 'what if Hulk was a woman' for this one, lame".
I think ultimately the problem is that people not familiar with the comics assume this is just a "woke" thing where they take an existing character and change their skin color or gender to something besides white male.
I think that says way more about those people than it does the quality of the show, especially if they didn't even bother to watch the show.
If you can't enjoy a show because it has a strong female lead and has a less serious tone than iteration you prefer, then that's a personal issue and it's totally fine to just not interact with it. If you go out of your way to bitch and moan and complain that "woke" ruined the content you "love" despite not realizing that it's all but lifted directly from the pages of its source material... Suddenly you're making it everyone else's problem.
The hell are you talking about? Do you think he was going to be running around in the Mark 1 suit for a half dozen films? The point is that he doesn't have the ability to make the suit or its miniaturized power source as-is without his wealth. And right or wrong, it's not unheard of for poor people to be like "f**k rich people". Y'all hafe fetishized the use of the word "woke" as your whole argument to the point of ridiculousness.
Fetishized means to like. I think you are looking for a different word.
But nah. Tony Stark has been in situations where money can't help him and he still was able to make stuff. There's timelines where he's broke he still is able to make shit.
Tony Stark is Tony Stark because of how smart he his. He had zero money to make reactor in the desert. He still made it. Actually read his stories. He is one of the smartest men on the planet
A lot of them shouldn't have even been TV shows. If they had been given a movie instead, there would've been a much higher bar for writing quality and a lot of the issues around pacing and flat humor would've probably been resolved. Likewise, some of the movies just had way too much story to tell and would've been better as a show
MOM? Should've been a TV series
Iron Heart? Should've been a movie
Ms. Marvel? If it was a movie, The Marvels would've probably gotten a way better turnout
Technically, imo, it actually is a racist/sexist reason.
This is why systemic oppression actually exists. Interpersonal prejudice is relatively low compared to the past. People always think the random redneck is going to hate minorities, but most rednecks actually dont. The real evil, are the powers that be.
Hollywood doesnt give a single fuck about minorities, they just want ticket sales. So, they see that the typical, everyday American is more progressive than in the past. So Hollywood panders to us. They give us minority representation, but dont put in the effort to fully flesh out these characters.
Hollywood is using these minority actors to sell slop to the masses. It's just minstrel shows on the backs of minstrel shows, all the way down.
And this is why we need to tackle the system itself, instead of constantly playing into identity politics or performing Oppression Olympic games. The upper class is using us, and we need to wake up and take the power back.
That line alone made me not interested in seeing anything more about the character. Her introduction in Black Panther 2 didn’t sell me on the character either.
Not one person in that room thought "idk maybe general audiences are going to think 'who tf is this bitch?' if she drops a line like that in the trailer"
These people were too busy smelling their own farts
There are moments when it's tolerable, and then there are moments like the Abomination speaking event thing that are just so laughably bad that I get second hand embarrassment for everybody involved in the show.
Any moment I found tolerable just ended up being such a let down at the end. They had foreshadowed so many things only to do a gotcha into a fourth wall break that it just felt like the storys events did not matter
Really lost me when Banner, a character that was so depressed at one point that the only reason he didn’t commit suicide was because Hulk literally wouldn’t let him, is told that he cannot comprehend how terrible it is to be catcalled.
This one right here. As someone who was once a depressed young man full of rage, the minute they invalidated Bruce's struggles, I dropped the show. Haven't seen anything else outside of clips.
It was the last episode that killed it. I loved it up until they introduced that dumb robot that was actually the writer of the show. I loved how the show was just making fun of incel culture in real time. I'm a straight dude and I thought the strong independent woman theme was fantastic. One of she hulks whole things is that she chooses to be hulkified the majority of the time because it gives her the feeling of power that she lacks as a woman in the world.
It was a post credit yes, the next episode was also all about Jennifer Walters being dragged online for meaningless, pointless bullshit simply because she was female.
The scene was 100% designed to have the reaction it did.
Wasn't it a five-second shot during the credits of an episode, or something like? That's what I've heard, which made me very confused about how it came to be the "everything wrong with the series" gif.
The reaction would be the same if Scarlett Johansson and Elizabeth Olsen did it. They are widely known as two of the most sexy women. But it was just out of place and badly written.
Yup. Because there was no problem with Deadpool slapping his ass and dancing to NSync in his movie. Yet She-Hulk gets trashed for twerking with Megan the Stallion.
I haven’t watched the Cap movie but Falcon and the Winter Soldier was mediocre at best with some high points like the ones with Isaiah Bradley.
It didn’t handle the racism (it’s ridiculous that the police didn’t recognize Falcon or I am thinking too highly of USA) well or the immigrant issue. If they were gonna make the Flag-smashers sympathetic, don’t let them commit mass terrorism towards the end.
It tried to tackle serious issues but it's done with a very superficial and in-your-face way that it just felt shallow and show-y. Not just the main plot but the characters too.
I never watched the new captain america movie, but the falcon and the winter soldier was nowhere near as good as phase 1 or 2 marvel. The themes were very inconsistent and it was just a weird story that was rewritten multiple times because of the pandemic. In another world it could have been a great show, but what we got isn’t nearly as good as either of the first 2 captain America stories
It was a decent enough fight imo, but it just didn't make any sense. Sam's Cap doesn't have the super syrum, so he's literally just a dude with the Cap shield and his fancy wings. He shouldn't have stood a chance against a Hulk for more than a couple of seconds at best. The only other characters we've seen take on a Hulk in combat were the ones way more powerful than even Steve Rodgers, let alone Sam Wilson, like Thor, Iron-Man in his specific 'Hulk Buster' suit, Thanos, and even Spider-Man.
I don’t mind Anthony Mackie as the new Captain America, but I still wish it was Bucky. I might get downvoted but Captain America should be a super soldier not someone without any kind of powers
I am against Bucky. He doesn’t have that character. But instead of John Walker getting the serum in the falcon and winter soldier series, why couldn’t they make Sam get it instead. Or maybe both idk
Yeah just because Bucky was Caps best friend doesn't mean he needs to fill his place and Sam didn't have powers while he was Captain America in the comics, and that's kind of the point.
That actually vexed me. People are getting serums like it is in the bargain bin by the dozens and somehow they don't take that opportunity to give it to Sam. I know he has his tech but super strength on top of it wouldn't make him too OP. Felt like a waste.
His lack of super strength really didn’t help in his movie where the climactic fight between him and Red Hulk wasn’t really a fight, but Mackie talking him down…because he doesn’t have the physical strength to fight like OG Cap could
Black Cap is what happens when you combine Iron Man and OG Cap but take away the tech smarts and the super strength and you’re left with the worst parts of both
She-Hulk absolutely had flaws, but it absolutely killed me when she just, instead of wrapping the season by doing something, does it by fourth wall break and just declares herself the winner.
That, and the entire thing of "I'm a woman so I know how to control my emotions" not when you're a being of literal rage but okay. The rest of the show was honestly fine, nothing I'm clamoring for a season 2 of, but yeah, feels vastly overhated
I have issues when a property makes other properties, that were already good, less good in retrospect (because of lazyness or ideology in this case I don't care which).
Their explanation of her having complete control of an other worldy rage monster that lives insider her because shes a woman that gets cat called sometimes undermined a 15 year arch of bruce banner going through the most unspeakable tragedies and coming out the other side.
In a vacuum where the hulk doesn't exist, sure whatever i don't care. But now every movie with hulk is a little bit worse because it turns out bruce banner is just a fragile baby and doesn't understand how to handle a sidewise comment from a stranger.
tbh, its not only the shit writing, its the excecutives fucking writers up forcing them to make the charcters suppousedly "appealing" to specific sectors and audiences to cover the market shares. I hate the "forced inclusion" argument used by racists and mysoginists, but lets be honest, while it is amazing to have representation in media, it is so fucking awful when this representation is only done to cover a market share because disney execs think people will only watch it because "Oh! hulk and ironman are girls now" or "captain is now black".... which is super stupid for execs to expect that, because the succesful films already had diverse representations which were not there just to cover a market share, characters fell consistent in their own ways. These characters feel forced because the poor writers have to find an excuse to make them "inclusive" ... (i know i sound crazy, but i really do like diverse media, but i do not like it when it is done just as an excuse to cover marketshares)
I think there was definitely a few years where the writing was lackluster and audiences couldn't keep up with the streaming show tie ins etc. In the case of these three characters specifically thats true for all of them
That's the thing though, the writing was lacklustre. People weren't getting sick of superhero movies, they were getting sick of mediocre superhero movies.
For all the racism and sexism criers I want to know why nobody hated Alien or Blade or any other good movie with non white Male leads. You guys feed the racism even more than the kkk (which is ridiculous).
It goes deeper, these movies are the poster children for enshittification. Marvel realized superhero fatigue set in and pop culture dropped MCU after end game. The universe was wrapped up, with a bow on it, and the story was complete
BUT, disney was up marvel’s ass to make more money for shareholders because if line dont go up then suits get mad. So marvel made these hastily made shit shows. Then to cover for their shittiness they ham fisted progressive social issues to deflect any criticism when the public didnt like it. MCU fan boys could then cry racism and disney would back off marvel when the shows failed
If you listen to bob iger’s first earnings call back as CEO of Disny he had to explicitly say that they arent pushing social issues and will rest MCU because investors were so mad
Basically it was the worst of capitalism and disingenuous corporate social pandering. Literally everyone hated it except MCU stans
2 are women and 2 are black. Except OP is full of shit. She-Hulk is not a successor to Hulk because Hulk is very much still around. And She-Hulk series is just shit, same with Ironheart. The actual reason those flopped is they are mediocre to shit movies/series coming out at time a lot of people had already tapped out of the MCU.
The only way you could come to the conclusion that She-Hulk was intended to be a "successor" to the Incredible Hulk, is if you'd never watched the show or read a She-Hulk comic.
The answer to the "joke" in thr post is that they turned them either black or into women.
The actual answer to why they failed:
She-Hulk: Horribly written and it completely disrespects hulk acting like merely existing as a woman comes close to the awful things he's had to go through.
Iron heart: haven't seen it but everyone knows about how she talks about the only thing that made Tony Iron Man was the money. Even though he was a freaking genius that did everything himself including BUILDING THE FIRST SUIT IN A CAVE WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS
Falcon: Really its just a boring show and I've heard the same about the movie. I dont recall much legitimate controversy it just wasn't good.
I do not subscribe to the idea that super heo movies have just gotten old and thats why dont make money anymore. The quality has noticeably gone down. Anytime an actually good one comes out people do still like and talk about it but the mistakes made after endgame have really moved the genre as a whole out of the public eye.
Well then you really shouldn't just assume that it was bad, then.
she talks about the only thing that made Tony Iron Man was the money.
No, she doesn't. The entire reason she makes a suit in the first place is because she admires Tony Stark. But she does gripe at one point that it's much more difficult for someone who isn't a billionaire to build a working, reusable Iron Man suit, and she's completely right.
Remember that Tony's first suit fell apart after five minutes. It was still an impressive piece of work and a great achievement, but it was not useful in the long term. It got him out of that cave and then stopped working forever. Ironheart is trying to built a suit that she can use over and over again, and not even Tony ever did that without access to his vast money and resources.
Tony makes like three or four suits in each Iron Man movie. On the other hand, the entire Ironheart series is about her trying to raise the money to build and maintain ONE suit. She has every right to point out that this is more difficult for a normal person than for a billionaire.
She Hulk was never a "successor" character, though. She was never intended to be taking over Hulk's place in the Avengers or the MCU. Her show was a super hero courtroom comedy with some action mixed in which, actually, is what her best comic runs usually are.
The only one of these that was ever planned as a "successor" was captain america. If iron heart ever shows up again, it is just as likely to be as a villain than a hero, based on the actual show
Jennifer said getting cat called was worse than what Bruce had gone through. You know small things like his dad abusing him and his mom,his girlfriends dad treating him like shit,his girlfriends dad hunting him around the world,going on a rampage through a major city,losing the woman he loved.
Riri talked shit about the guy who sacrificed himself to save the world while slacking off at her Ivy League school and helping kids cheat. After making the suit she decided to work with criminals and is surprised that goes bad for her.
Honestly Falcon wasn't good or bad it just was meh in my opinion. I enjoyed the dynamic between Sam and Bucky though.
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u/qualityvote2 Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
u/Apart_Lawfulness3258, your post does belong here!