Peta?

[u/sanicmeister]

[u/qualityvote2]

u/sanicmeister, your post does belong here!

[u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Solar bro, they’re talking about solar. Now enjoy a bunch of bots shitting on solar and the its feasibility

Edit: stop giving me awards! Donate that money to a local food drive or buy yourself something cool

Okay I now know about the free awards

[u/Good_Entertainer9383 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Yup right now the cheapest and quickest energy to build is solar and wind

[u/TastingTheKoolaid → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

“But what about when it’s nighttime????”

/s

[u/Ketzer_Jefe → u/TastingTheKoolaid]

I see the sarcasm but will answer it any way.

Renewable energies are all supposed to be used together to support one another. When its night or cloudy, wind and hydro picks up the slack. When there is no wind, solar and hydro pick it up. When there is a surplus of energy (its sunny and windy out) use it to pump water uphill into a reservoir so that it can be used in hydro another time. Add batteries for more storage to help stabilize the grid when there is high demand until other sources can be activated.

Edit: i was just talking about renewables with this comment. I mention nuclear elsewhere and fully agree we need more of that all working together.

[u/Outdoorsintherockies → u/Ketzer_Jefe]

Are these batteries super easy to make and produce? Accounting for the production and mining of all these minerals for the batteries and the solar, is it still better than nuclear?
Here is a neat video to watch about why nuclear is the solution, not renewables, and why one side is preventing it from happening. https://youtu.be/diHish6yC1g?si=_BQNfgBl8fAyTMuL

[u/Ketzer_Jefe → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

So I was going to add a paragraph about nuclear, but just decided to keep it with renewables since the post was about solar. Ideally nuclear reactors are built and they would be more than enough to supply power with less harm to the environment that mining all of the rare earth metals causes. And in a perfect world nuclear is used in tandem with renewables. Its always better to have multiple forms of energy generation just in case something happens. But yes you are right, nuclear is the best option.

[u/R3D3-1 → u/Ketzer_Jefe]

At least with existing nuclear power plants, they are susceptible to climate change issues ironically. In Europe this year several of them had to be shut down or run on partial capacity due to insufficient water supply for their operation.

I'm not sure if that is down to the specific implementation assuming Europe's traditionally plentiful water availability in those regions, or if it is a more general technical issue of nuclear power plants.

To the best of my knowledge, the same issue should also affect any other power plant that uses water avaporation to turn turbines, which would include at least coal; I am not entirely sure about gas.

[u/Ketzer_Jefe → u/R3D3-1]

The nuclear plant I live near uses sea water for its outer cooling loop. Now you can't do that everywhere but by the time the Atlantic dries up, we all will be long gone.

[u/Luxalpa → u/Ketzer_Jefe]

Don't you need to desalinate? Or how does that work? I mean, datacenters could also use sea-water, but I'm pretty sure the reason they don't do it had something to do with material degradation from salt-water.

Edit: I don't think you need to desalinate. So yes, seriously curious why sea water isn't used more often for the outer loop. I remember watching a video about it, but I can't find it right now.

[u/kizmelelf → u/Luxalpa]

I think the main reason is just the locations. Many seaside areas are unsuitable for a nuclear plant. many places are subject to erosion, which is a big no no for a nuclear plant. Also of consideration is the possibility of extreme weather and proximity to population. Most of the ideal plant locations also coincide with the ideal city locations because they share similar criteria; access to sea or a seabound river (eg. for shipping), solid ground for building that isn't susceptible to erosion, lack of prevalence of extreme weather disasters (hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunami), etc.

However, a good alternative is lakes and reservoirs, the comanche peak nuclear plant uses a reservoir for its cooling.

The biggest issue though is the public acceptance and propaganda from the oil industry. Many people stand to lose a lot of money if oil use decreases from nuclear power proliferation, and they spread blatantly false media campaigns about the safety of nuclear power, such that the average uneducated person has a sudden aversion to any thought of a nuclear power plant being built near them. What's really stupid though is that nuclear is almost 1000 times safer than coal and oil.

Sorry for the rant, this shit still makes me angry.

[u/Ketzer_Jefe → u/Luxalpa]

No idea, but it doesn't have a cooling tower and I remember on a field trip to it years ago the guy said they bring cooling water in from the sea, and vent the "hot" water out like a mile off shore.

[u/Key-Equivalent-6908 → u/Luxalpa]

Sea water is mostly water, with the next big “elements” being chloride and sodium,

And when sea salt specifically the chloride in it dissolves in water, or atmospheric moisture, it splits into ions, which, in turn help electrical charges move across metals

Rusting in general is when a metal such as iron, loses electrons, and reacts with oxygen and water,

Sea water also in general “traps” moisture on surfaces

This is more or less what I remember, do correct me if I oversimplified to much, or got something wrong as it’s been a while

[u/Narrrz → u/Luxalpa]

I imagine desalinization would be necessary at some stage. If not to protect the radiators (can you make them from something that doesn't corrode in salt water, or coat them in it?) then because as the heated water evaporates, the salt will remain. At minimum when they're moving the 'used' water back to the ocean its salinity will be higher, which might cause localized ecological impact, and probably measures would need to be put in place to prevent salt deposits in the towers.

[u/AloneInExile → u/R3D3-1]

The law dictates that nuclear plants cant heat water more than 3°C from ambient water temp with a max of 28°C, so if your slow moving river goes above that any nuclear plant would have to shut down.

Rivers this year went near or above 28°C and thus cooling for the reactors effectivelly stopped.

[u/LongJohnSelenium → u/R3D3-1]

That just means you need to design them with slightly more pessimistic models in mind. Its not a fundamental flaw of the concept.

Basically when they were built in the 60s and 70s the designers said X temperature is fine.

And yes this would apply to any thermal plant, and gas cogen plants as well.

Pure gas turbines likely not so much but those are largely just relegated to peaker plants.

[u/BKrustev → u/R3D3-1]

It is not the specific implementation, it's literally just not enough water because of rising temperatures.

When you build a nuclear power plant near a river, you can't move it. If the river dries even a bit, but enough so water can't reach the plant, you are fucked. That's what happened in Europe. Previously stable water sources dried just enough that the power plants had to work in diminished capacity.

Maybe future plants can be build in a way that is more flexible...

[u/BlatantConservative → u/Ketzer_Jefe]

So from what I understand from an actual expert in the field I've talked to, nuclear and hydro are great for baseloads but horrible for fluctuations. They provide the same amount of power, forever. It's hard and expensive for them to he be set up in a way where they quickly increase and decrease supply.

Solar is great for counteracting usage spikes that happen on hot and sunny days, namely air conditioning spikes. The efficiency of solar more or less matches with the times AC spike. Wind, in many areas of the US but not everywhere, more or less matches with the corresponding heater spikes when it's cold. In a lot of places that it does not, more local ad hoc stuff like geothermal or tidal power might fill the same role.

The most surprising thing I learned in this conversation is that this expert thinks that coal scrubbers are more environmentally friendly than lithium batteries.

[u/Slow-Code-661 → u/BlatantConservative]

In terms of pollution coal scrubbers are more environmental friendly because they trap a lot of the pollutants that generally are otherwise just emitted via the exhaust but they do not reduce CO2 emissions.

Nuclear and hydro are indeed great. The problem with hydro is that at this point there really aren’t that many good natural hydro resources to tap into anymore and each hydro project is basically bespoke.

The reason many people like nuclear is specifically because as you get good at manufacturing nuclear plants they become increasingly cheap. It’s the reason france, south korea and china have such a high nuclear penetration.

Geothermal is actually very good, but the current problem is that it’s geographically constrained to places where it is accessible because the earth’s crust is thin enough. There are, however, lots of startups and researchers working on finding technologies to drill much deeper which could unlock many new geothermal resources.

[u/oimly → u/Slow-Code-661]

The reason many people like nuclear is specifically because as you get good at manufacturing nuclear plants they become increasingly cheap. It’s the reason france, south korea and china have such a high nuclear penetration.

Incorrect. France has so many nuclear plants because they went for a full nuclear power strategy before alternatives became viable. Their program started in the 50s. Yes, the 1950s. They are barely building any.

[u/Slow-Code-661 → u/oimly]

The last reactor was built in 1999. 16 Years later Flamanville started. The initial Nuclear buildout worked so well because they used a standardized design which allowed them to achieve economies of scale in the production. But they abandoned the standardized system in favor of creating new first of a kind reactors which blew up costs and complexity. The initial slowdown in the nuclear buildout was mostly due to slowing economic growth and electricity demand and as a result of that the entire nuclear supply chain that had been built over the decades slowed down until eventually they forgot how to be good at the thing they once excelled at.

[u/Killer_Boi → u/Ketzer_Jefe]

Seeing someone with acually correct and very clear understanding of how renewable and nuclear energy would be best in tandem with each other at the very least until an actual stable renewable cycle exists.

In terms of batteries, you mentioned water pumped to reservoirs which in itself is a battery. Potential energy batteries (gravity batteries) exist and do not need to store electrical power, the biggest one in Rudong storing over 100MWh.

These heavily reduce the need for rare earth minerals.

Or like another said for electrical batteries, use sodium ion batteries, just not lithium.

[u/rusty-roquefort → u/Killer_Boi]

Non hydro gravity storage is really only viable where all hydro options have already been exhausted. It's not quite as efficient on the round trip as mechanical, but for each dollar spent, it provides significantly more capacity overall.

[u/Amathyst-Moon → u/Ketzer_Jefe]

Slight issue, they use uranium as fuel, which still needs to be mined

[u/Panzer_IV_H → u/Ketzer_Jefe]

This, nuclear is solid base but it's best to combine it with renewables

[u/hmoeslund → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

The answer is yes, a pallet battery is easy to make, with readily available materials, they are large and clunky, but they get the job done. They won’t fit in a Tesla, but for house use they are fine.

[u/DukeOfGeek → u/hmoeslund]

Here ya go, Sodium Ion Grid storage battries are here today.

https://news.gm.com/home.detail.html/Pages/news/us/en/2026/jun/0609-sodium-ion-batteries-grid-scale-energy-storage.html

Made with plentiful resources, non toxic, non flammable, recyclable and ready for your basement or power grid.

[u/Yargon_Kerman → u/hmoeslund]

Also Lead Acid batteries like old school car batteries are almost 100% recyclable iirc.

[u/vrnvorona → u/Yargon_Kerman]

Lithium is also recyclable, it's just not profitable so they don't do it

[u/robbak → u/vrnvorona]

Well, not yet profitable, in many places, because the volume isn't there. Almost all the automotive batteries are still in use, and those that are no longer in cars are being reused for stationary storage.

Probably the biggest class of lithium batteries that aren't getting recycled are disposable vapes. Mostly because people don't know that they use high quality lithium rechargable cells.

[u/rusty-roquefort → u/robbak]

That's probably the most pathetic example of human behaviour: single use rechargeable batteries. I mean, wtf!

[u/AVeryHeavyBurtation → u/Yargon_Kerman]

Yeah like 95%+ of the lead used in car batteries is recycled into new car batteries.

[u/General_Problem5199 → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

Good thing we don't have to choose between nuclear and solar. We could do both.

[u/misterjive → u/General_Problem5199]

The problem isn't the choice between nuclear and solar; it's that over the past 40 years we had a choice between nuclear and coal, and atom panic caused us to pick coal.

And that's what's killing our civilization. So much damage has been done that even if we magically switched to 100% renewables right this second, we're still proper fucked.

[u/misterjive → u/[deleted]]

Oh yeah, we just have to magically switch entirely to renewables, develop carbon capture tech that's way more efficient and scalable than we have right now, and do it 20 years ago. And not, say, invest in a ridiculously energy-heavy technology designed to make the richest richer while allowing average folks to generate as many pictures of Mario railing Luigi as they want.

All's not lost, but most of it is.

[u/Letronell → u/misterjive]

Better late than later...

[u/Luxalpa → u/[deleted]]

While carbon removal is probably going to be required, stopping the excess output is going to be the main priority for sure. I think there's many carbon sinks existing naturally already - they are just all overloaded.

[u/Maximum-Objective-39 → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

Yes, Salt Batteries are a major area of research that are showing promising improvement. About their only downside relative to lithium-ion is that they're incredibly heavy. But that's not a huge issue for a fixed installation.

[u/RichardGrayson01 → u/Maximum-Objective-39]

Sodium battery are already being deployed. Depending on where you live you can already buy them for home energy storage. I know they are currently available in Europe and the US.

[u/FanraGump → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

• Sodium-ion Not rare earth
• Iron-air - Not rare earth

Form Energy + Xcel Energy (Minnesota, USA)

• 10 MW / 1,000 MWh (100‑hour duration)
• First commercial multi‑day battery
• Uses iron, water, and air — extremely cheap materials

Hubei Three Gorges (China)

• 100 MW / 200 MWh
• Uses CATL sodium‑ion cells
• Designed for daily solar cycling

Noor Ouarzazate Solar Complex (Morocco)

• 510 MW CSP plant
• 7+ hours molten‑salt storage
• Among the largest thermal storage systems in the world
• Thermal storage dominates solar‑thermal plants.

Bath County Pumped Storage Station (USA)

• Pumped hydro system
• 3,003 MW
• 24,000 MWh
• Often called “the world’s largest battery”
• This dwarfs all chemical batteries.

[u/Knight0fdragon → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

Using hydropower actually is the battery.

[u/BeardedDesire → u/Knight0fdragon]

This. And in places we don’t have water available for hydro power, we can use gravity batteries and/or flywheel batteries. Both being mechanical ways of storing energy without the use of minerals, metals or chemicals.

[u/Vennomite → u/BeardedDesire]

Some of the chemical batteries are fine. We just arent going that way for large scale since its a lot of fluid and its explored so patents only apply to improvements

[u/RichardGrayson01 → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

Look up sodium batteries. It will blow your mind. They pretty much address all of your critics

[u/DragonFireCK → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

One of the big issues with nuclear is that it’s only really good for baseline load. It’s both extremely expensive to construct and has a very slow ramp speed, both of which make it unsuitable for peak load generation.

Solar has the nighttime limitation, but is reasonably viable to cut off if peak generation exceeds load and storage capacity.

Wind tends to be unpredictable, but, again, can be cut off easily when too much is being generated.

Pumped hydro can make a pretty solid battery solution, when suitable land exists. It can be fairly quickly ramped to meet peak demand. Overall, it’s a good addition to solar and wind systems. It is expensive to construct, however.

Sodium batteries may solve a lot of the issues with lithium batteries, but the tech isn’t quite developed enough yet to know.

[u/Material-Sherbet6855 → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

Sounds like money spent researching other battery technologies are money well spent!

Edit: https://www.alsym.com/blog/alternatives-to-lithium-batteries/

[u/Spinkler → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

Respectfully, what does America alone have to do with this? Energy is a global matter affecting us on a global scale. Fixing it (or ignoring it) in America alone will do very little to address the global issue.

[u/inshanester → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

More politically feasible: no one wants nuclear power dumped or generated in thier own backyard.

[u/oimly → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

Yes. LiFePO batteries use Lithium, Iron, Phosphor, Oxygen. You have all that.

Also, fun fact: The world does not revolve around "America"

Nuclear is not commercially viable. That's it. That is my whole argument. You want electricity prices to go to the moon? Build nuclear. Also

not use rare earth metals that are only mined in places that are not America?

is disingenuous - as if Uranium is exclusively mined in America. Oh wait, you import shitloads of it and you actually USE IT UP. The minerals in solar panels and batteries are not used up. So even if countries stop supplying you with it, you can keep recycling the materials you have.

[u/Ymir24 → u/Outdoorsintherockies]

Yes. It's extremely easy and cheap to build large storage batteries with Sodium. Note: Sodium batteries are not as efficient as lithium, so they are not suited for EVs/cars. We still need rare earth batteries for cars, but we could have limitless batteries using the Earth's inexhaustible supply of sodium

[u/msasrs → u/Ketzer_Jefe]

And dont forget nuclear. Its a source of really clean energy, maybe one of the best, if used properly.

[u/Ketzer_Jefe → u/msasrs]

I mention it further down

[u/Bobsothethird → u/Ketzer_Jefe]

Add in nuclear and there's almost no problem at all

[u/Ketzer_Jefe → u/Bobsothethird]

I have another common elsewhere in this thread about nuclear. I like it, but wanted to keep it to just renewables since op posted about solar.

[u/hotchiplow → u/TastingTheKoolaid]

You use Hamster wheels duh

[u/TastingTheKoolaid → u/hotchiplow]

I knew it. How many hamsters will it take to charge my phone to full?

[u/TheXIIILightning → u/TastingTheKoolaid]

One hamster and a little bit of cocaine, but you'll be replacing hamsters quite often.

[u/SumYumGhai → u/TheXIIILightning]

What's the hamster to cocaine ratio we're looking at here?

[u/InevitabilityEngine → u/TastingTheKoolaid]

CSP Tower. Thousands of tracking mirrors reflect sunlight to a chamber at the top of a central tower. The chamber is filled with molten salt which is pumped into insulated tanks and acts as a solar heat battery that retains so much of the heat, you can still use all the way until the sun rises again.

It uses steam turbines to generate the electricity when needed.

[u/sisko6969 → u/TastingTheKoolaid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

Climb during the day, fall during night.

[u/macguini → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

And the "free" solar guys that knock on your door are actually buying a piece of your house.

[u/Less_Performance_629 → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

which is a shame, because they wont do it. 20 years ago was the time to invest in nuclear. the mongrels in charge missed that window and now they want a crack at it, but its too late.

[u/Good_Entertainer9383 → u/Less_Performance_629]

Correct they're just too slow to get from zero to creating energy. And we are in "reduce carbon emissions right fucking now or else" mode

[u/Pretend_Purchase_893 → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

Nah the reduce now or else was 20 years ago by this point. The snowball is rolling down the hill now and building momentum fast. That's not to say we should just throw our hands in the air and give up. But the planet is now actively shaking us off. We need to figure out how to live on this world as it changes.

[u/WarbleDarble → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

People were saying this exact thing 20 years ago.

[u/Senior-Albatross → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

We're already in the "find out" mode. We're in "reduce carbon emissions right fucking now or agriculture won't be viable by the end of the century" mode. 

[u/BobbyDukeArts → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

But the best is nuclear 

[u/Silly-Power → u/BobbyDukeArts]

Except it takes years to build a new reactor and the cost to generate electricity is higher. But other than the extra time and extra cost, its better. 

[u/PeriapsisStudios → u/Silly-Power]

The advantage it has is it tends to take up less space and is more viable at higher latitudes where the sunlight is less intense. I’d argue it fills the gaps where solar doesn’t work as well.

[u/Cow_God → u/PeriapsisStudios]

Yeah, we need a mix of renewables, but nuclear is the future.

Especially from a conservation standpoint. It has the smallest footprint of any energy source which means we're destroying less ecosystems

[u/FutureVawX → u/Cow_God]

I would argue that nuclear is needed now because it's a very mature technology that produce massive amount of energy.

Solar is the future, but current technology is still technically in infancy.

While wind takes so much space to produce tiny amount of energy, maybe it'll get better too in the future.

[u/Cosmeticu04 → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

L'énergie la moins chère, et de très loin, est l'hydraulique.

[u/-QuestionMark- → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

I’m sorry, but wind is just too dangerous.

[u/christoph95246 → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

Allow me to introduce you to water

Some countries have the possibility to produce water based electricity cheaper Like Austria, Switzerland or Norway

[u/Great_Vegetable_4866 → u/Good_Entertainer9383]

Did a study on wind farms. They are literally the least efficient form of energy production/storage ever conceived.

[u/throwaway17362826 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Not a bot. But I am an electrician that’s built solar farms. It’s not economically feasible without the biden tax credits that trump killed.

It absolutely could be feasible, with no extra work required on the tech side of things, if the green energy industry got as much love from the government as the fossil fuels industry.

But then, stepping on the toes of big business, can’t be having that now can we?

[u/Cold5512 → u/throwaway17362826]

What percentage of a large city's power generation would you say is feasible to produce with solar?

[u/foundafreeusername → u/Cold5512]

You can't really properly answer a question like this. There are huge differences between cities in terms of how much solar radiation they get, seasonal differences, access to cheap solar / battery installations and so on.

[u/Cold5512 → u/foundafreeusername]

I like your answer the best. Other people said "half" and "all."

How about "in the city you live, what percentage of the city's power generation would you say is feasible to produce with solar?"

Everyone is going to have a different city, but everyone can answer for the city they understand the best.

[u/jankeyass → u/Cold5512]

In Brisbane, right now, solar usage goes from 95% to 30% during daylight depending on the solar intensity that day. This includes industrial. It causes some issues with the power stations

[u/nicknamesas → u/jankeyass]

Thr country that is mostly a desert has good solar power?/s

[u/jankeyass → u/nicknamesas]

Yes but it's all concentrated where we mostly live, due to both infrastructure and the fact that it's rooftop residential solar panels

[u/WantonKerfuffle → u/Cold5512]

Yeah this is rare on the internet. We can totally get to net-zero, we just need the right tool for the right job, everywhere.

[u/QfromMars2 → u/WantonKerfuffle]

Yeah, we have those Tools.
If you have - Lets say - a City that has an Average need of 1 GW electricity, then you build 10GW of solar 10GW of Wind and 1GW of battery out out with a Storage capacity of 100GHW and have your own chemical Industry that produces H2, „Green Steel“ and Carbon neutral cement with the not used electricity.
Make the H2 Production highly automated and State owned so you can Take the electricity in that wouldnt be used and guarantee that the plant doesnt go bankrupt in the Winter while having a stable Price for the H2.

If you do that you have your own cheap electricity for consumers, decarbonized the Heavy industrial Complex and have a cheap Storage of Energy that will last half a Week (batteries) and for however long you plan on it (H2).
There is a Risk of few sun with few Wind and sometimes These situations can hold on for as much as a Week.
This is why you need so big batteries as well as other fallback solutions.
H2 (or other synthetic chemical Energy Storage products) is one way, but having a strong continental Grid is Even better if everyone has around this much Generation.

[u/PatchesOfSilver → u/Cold5512]

https://www.weforum.org/stories/2021/10/solar-panels-half-the-world-roofs-electricity-research/

https://carbontracker.org/solar-and-wind-can-meet-world-energy-demand-100-times-over-renewables/

Just solar? Easily all of it.

Solar + wind + water? Better get busy breeding, we need a trillion humans on the planet to make use of all this power.

Hurry hurry hurry, have lots of kids.

[u/Cold5512 → u/PatchesOfSilver]

Based on the current political climate, the inefficiencies, apathy, and corruption of every government, and the debt crisis the west is sleep walking into; what percentage of the world's power is feasible to generate with solar. Also consider energy storage and cold winters that need more heating and generate less solar.

I think you imagined a perfect world with unlimited money and a extremely competent government.

[u/Nazreg → u/Cold5512]

Half

[u/ButterscotchAward → u/throwaway17362826]

You some kinda socialist?! You think we should be giving MY hard earned tax dollars to maoist AOC’s green new deal industry friends instead of meat eating red blooded American capitalist fossil fuel guys?! I bet your wife’s boyfriend just loves you! We need to burn oil! ARE LIBERDY IS AT STEAK!

[u/Reagalan → u/ButterscotchAward]

I bet your wife’s boyfriend just loves you!

:3

[u/Silly-Power → u/throwaway17362826]

How come it's not economically feasible in thr US but is so in other countries? 

In Australia, three States this year dropped wholesale electricity prices due to the amount of renewables – which are cheaper than the fossil fuel alternatives – now in the system. One State supplies  3 hours of electricity free each day to every household. 

[u/joqagamer → u/Silly-Power]

because the US is a silly place where oil lobbying is the strongest voice.

[u/a_happy_future → u/throwaway17362826]

Which ties back to the OOP mentioning the 12 billionaires that said no

[u/sisho88 → u/throwaway17362826]

Literally the point of the post.

[u/kelpyb1 → u/throwaway17362826]

It’s even dumber than stepping on the toes of the concept of big business, the solar farms we’d be building would also be big businesses.

It’s stepping on the toes of those few specific fossil fuel companies

[u/acceptbellybuttonpic → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Bro solar is so unfeasible. Don't even, like the whole root error please contact customer support for more information.

[u/DoBemol → u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

I am a solar economist. Currently the problem is that it is too cheap.

[u/Busy-Teacher-4534 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

yeah, I get that part, but who are the 12 rich guys he means?

[u/g785_7489 → u/Busy-Teacher-4534]

Donald Trump, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, other pedophiles who the right seeks to empower.

[u/Rivka333 → u/g785_7489]

I don't like Elon overall but in this context it makes no sense to include him. How is he against solar?

Anyway, I don't think you answered the question you were replying to. 12 is a very specific number. I'm betting it refers to some conspiracy theory in which it is exactly 12 people. "Trump and other powerful people" is different.

[u/Dracomortua → u/Rivka333]

This is a solid question and deserves a solid answer from someone like me -- i was once a HUGE fan of his. Wow, my clock got cleaned.

• His Tesla car was a way to expand his Tesla charging stations which charge substantially more for electricity (pure profit). Breaking centralized power breaks this investment rapidly.

• Solar power (panels) is 80-88% China now. The sodium batteries? Also China. The 'blades' he uses for most of his cars now? China. A ten thousand dollar (BYD 'Seagull') electric car, often an order of magnitude cheaper than what he offers? China.

• He is heavily invested in the oil whipping bandwagon now, thanks to his brown-nosing in with Trump. Solar will annihilate this.

He is also one of the investors in data centres / A.I. LLMs (Grok) which cannot run any less than 99.99% reliability. Solar panels + sodium ion batteries are, apparently, less reliable than that (even though they are cheaper to set up and about half the time).

But please, he does put on a great show of loving solar? So there must be many things i am missing.

[u/popfer87 → u/[deleted]]

That's not a contradiction. He can own a company that sells solar while pushing to make it more expensive for regular people to buy and install it. That's pretty much capitalism's favorite way of maximizing profit.

[u/Top_Wrangler4251 → u/g785_7489]

What have Peter Thiel and Elon Musk done to kill solar? Neither of them are in the energy industry and they both only got rich in recent decades, solar wasn't a thing before them either.

Trump legitimately has done things to stifle solar power, but again he's only been president since 2016 and only for one country. How is he the reason solar isn't big in countries outside the US either or before 2016?

[u/GreatStateOfSadness → u/Top_Wrangler4251]

  Neither of them are in the energy industry

Not a fan of the guy but he literally owns a company that sells solar panels. 

[u/davideogameman → u/Busy-Teacher-4534]

Metaphorical I assume because there probably aren't exactly 12, though one of them is probably Donald Trump.

[u/Schanulsiboi08 → u/Busy-Teacher-4534]

Fossil fuel companies lobbying against it, they probably meant their ceos

[u/NoTeslaForMe → u/Busy-Teacher-4534]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory.  Or maybe something happened in the Supreme Court but counting to nine is hard. 

[u/Buuts321 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Anyone honest will tell you solar is only one piece of the puzzle.  Yes we need more solar but we don't just need solar.  We need a plethora of energy sources, including nuclear fission.

[u/lanatommo → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

If it helps, the awards you have are free! Comments that received paid awards are highlighted in yellow/gold

[u/Stromatolite-Bay → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

The feasibility issue is storage and yeah lithium batteries are absolutely terrible at their job. There is just nothing better at present

However, there is no reason to not put them on as many houses as possible. Especially more rural housing

Come on that is private electricity generation for personal use with way less infrastructure needed

[u/Last-Energy420 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

I want solar just to get away from city power that’s going to the data centers we can’t vote against.

[u/0202_tihssitidder → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

China is doing well. Leading in renewable energy. Solar Kings of the Planet and already working on what comes after solar.

China is run by engineers with PhDs. USA is run by clowns and dipshits.

USA is screwed.

The rest of the world (most of it) is moving forward. China is doing so well that USA is talking about how they will bomb China's new high speed trains...and silent AGI data centers...and free healthcare facilities...and inexpensive pharma facilities...and all the nice, futuristic things that Americans want but absolutely are way too stupid to deserve.

lol

America is too busy building a Ballroom, tryna fix a Reflecting Pool (still not repaired), and rename some lakes.

That is how pathetic the USA is right now. Full speed reverse at the most important 10 year period in human history. Republicans!

[u/pdshank → u/0202_tihssitidder]

Are you saying China had an AI model more progressed than OpenAI or Anthropic?

China is still running a coal backbone that they deny but weather satellites have confirmed.

They progress faster in things like manufacturing because they don't care about the ecosystem, just the glory of West Taiwan

[u/0202_tihssitidder → u/pdshank]

I am saying USA struggling with Ballroom construction, Reflecting Pool, and food supply that won't kill you.

[u/joseaner07 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Could be using more nuclear witch id the cleanest but a whole bunch scared of you said no

[u/Pees-Upwind → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Totally unfeasible!

As i type this sitting in my off-grid solar powered home....

[u/bobafettbounthunting → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Definitely feasible, but the US's (which is like 80% of reddit) neglected energy grid is definitely not ready for it.

[u/Blazej_kb → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

nuclear is cheaper

[u/Global-Management-15 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Boom.

I think it was something like a bunch of land in the Sahara would power the entire Earth

[u/12kVStr8tothenips → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

The answer is what it’s always been - diversification. We need some of all of them so that a Chernobyl or solar flares doesn’t put us in the dark ages for weeks. They all are a part of the balance of the grid.

[u/Colonel_Shame1 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

No this is incorrect. It’s talking about Majestic 12. The alleged 12 people in charge of suppression alien tech and alien knowledge.

[u/Mekko4 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

fym solar, DYSON SPHERE.

[u/duncanmarshall → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

"Everybody who doesn't agree with me is a bot".

[u/lecutinside11 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

My power bill this month was 97 cents thanks to the solar on my roof

[u/Suspicious-Place4471 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Renewables paired with nuclear is just really the way to go.
But the world's infrastructure is so based around coal and oil that it is impossible for it to happen anytime soon.
Not until the wells dry up that is.

[u/Sea-Course-5171 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

I promise you I'm not a clanker, and Solar absolutely 100% is feasible, it's just not issue free. Just like with wind energy, where the recycling of old turbines is a crux issue that we didn't think enough about beforehand, solar also has environmental concerns.

For one, the best solar panels are loaded with heavy metals, and the currently in development replacements, Perovskite Solar Panels, contain both lead and other heavy metals, which do leech out of the panels shockingly quickly into even just rainwater whilst damaged panels could potentially leech large amounts into the ground.

just gonna repeat here that solar is STILL way better than fossil fuels and the retirement of fossil fuel power can't come soon enough, and the EU's(especially Germany's) push against nuclear power has set the world back decades in terms of escaping the Fossil Fuel Hellhole.

But in replacing something horrendous, we should keep an eye on the risks, issues, and environmental effects of the replacements, because we clearly didn't do that the last time. Offshore Wind Farms have a way bigger effect on currents and marine life than we thought, with some estimates saying their mere presence reduces current velocity by up to 90% within 20km of them. They're also having a massive effect on coastal winds. Solar Panels are also not really recyclable and the first fully recyclable wind turbines came onto the market just recently with most currently standing models being made of fiberglass, steel and fiber reinforced concrete, making them an absolute nightmare to dispose of.

That is to say, unlike Hydropower, Solar and Wind power relies on replaceable and, effectively, consumable powerplants and we need to be aware of the recycling and recoverability we need to enforce there, since otherwise they'll just be shipped off as scrap metal to Africa and give people there cancer.

[u/Xfier246 → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

There are free awards?

[u/PrudentCarter → u/Accomplished-Mix-745]

Just learned about free rewards from you. Than you bro.

[u/NiceBlackberry6618]

I don't think it's referencing any one event, but the top richest 12 people have immense power over the world and solar has been demonized (not necessarily even by them) significantly.

[u/NiceBlackberry6618 → u/[deleted]]

yis

[u/Key-Mongoose4837 → u/NiceBlackberry6618]

Doesnt Elon have a solar company lol.

[u/IAmRobinGoodfellow → u/Key-Mongoose4837]

It folded after doing a handful of installs. It was BS.

[u/GaiaIsaHarshMistress → u/IAmRobinGoodfellow]

Not true. The solar roof was discontinued last month. Tesla doesn't breakout their solar panel business from their battery energy storage business any more, but their estimated solar install is somewhere between 100–200 MW. Far from their peak a few years ago, but not zero.

[u/Hope915 → u/Key-Mongoose4837]

I would suggest reading the comical number of scandals, litigation and fraud claims on the wikipedia page for SolarCity.

[u/WantonKerfuffle → u/Key-Mongoose4837]

The Tesla solar shingles, yes. Pretty much done by now, never lived up to the claims. Also a problem looking for a solution. The solar roof had one advantage, not looking like a roof with solar panels, which triggers boomers but to younger people buying renting homes today, a roof with solar panels is just what a roof looks like.

[u/Rivka333 → u/NiceBlackberry6618]

I know the top richest people have power, but why 12 exactly?

And when did Elon (who I don't like for other reasons) demonize solar?

[u/poriomaniac → u/Rivka333]

This website has a massive issue with hyperbole. Using a number like 12 is purely for effect and has no literal significance.

[u/jyssys → u/poriomaniac]

They might as well could have asked "500 000 years? Why 500 000 exactly? Which years?"

[u/heliosythic → u/poriomaniac]

Hyperbole isn't an issue, its a legitimate way to get a point across. That people find an issue with it without understanding the point is the issue. We learned this in middle school.

[u/poriomaniac → u/heliosythic]

Fam that is exactly what I said. The site has an issue with hyperbole, as in an inability to recognize or understand it.

I love hyperbole I use it literally every time I speak

[u/heliosythic → u/poriomaniac]

Fair I see it that way now. You're right. So many people try and jump on the smallest wording anomaly to "win" their arguments instead of discussing the actual points.

[u/NiceBlackberry6618 → u/Rivka333]

This is an explain the joke subreddit not defend or substantiate the joke from a different platform subreddit

[u/PainterEarly86 → u/NiceBlackberry6618]

How do you demonise literal sunlight lmao capitlism is funny

[u/WantonKerfuffle → u/PainterEarly86]

Sun doesn't always shine. That's the entire argument. Yes, if we would only use solar and don't take any more steps to make it viable (interconnected grid, grid-scale storage, add wind, biomass, gas peakers for the Dunkelflaute), then we'd have a problem, but the entire argument is "solar alone can't work". Which is true, but no one claimed otherwise.

[u/WordWordNvmber → u/NiceBlackberry6618]

Have they blocked or impeded solar?

[u/OkOil378 → u/WordWordNvmber]

A lot of governments have blocked or impeded the usage of solar energy

[u/scumble_bee → u/NiceBlackberry6618]

This is not uncommon in the medical device industry as well. Company X patents a device A to do thing, gets acquired by Company Z, ramps up production on A. Company Y patents device B that does thing better than device A and is cheaper to make. Company Z acquires company Y but never produces device B because the cost savings from switching to manufacturing device B would take too long recoup the cost of switching.

[u/SpezSupporter → u/NiceBlackberry6618]

In reality it's nuclear that has been demonized the most.

The greenest, densest, most reliable and often the cheapest source of power...

[u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

Oil is more profitable than solar. Well, in the short term. Once the planet becomes unlivable and the consumer market severely diminished, oil is going to be much less profitable.

[u/Prestigious-Pace1500 → u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

Solar is actually more profitable these days, though the switch happened very recently. Makes you wonder

[u/acceptbellybuttonpic → u/Prestigious-Pace1500]

It's more affordable thanks to grants and production and installation provide a lot of jobs, but it's less profitable for the comically wealthy. Good for the economy though. You don't have monopoly giants moving mass profits around like a shell game through shipping, refining, drilling, the list goes on. In time solar may generate its own barrons that play that game but it's not the tycoon industry like oil is.

[u/Sensitive_Bat_9211 → u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

This is just not true. Solar became cheaper per watt around 2019/2020.

This is from a pure cost analysis standpoint so money from grants arent included.

[u/Prestigious_Aerie219 → u/Sensitive_Bat_9211]

I thought this thread was about how profitable it is for the 1%. The guy you replied literally agreed it's more affordable already.

[u/Sensitive_Bat_9211 → u/Prestigious_Aerie219]

He specifically said its more profitable because its subsidized.

Ignoring that fossil fuels are also subsidized, solar outcompetes all fossil fuels including coal and natural gas on an even playing field

[u/DrWernerKlopek89 → u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

might want to look up subsidies for the oil and gas industry....

[u/XiaoDaoShi → u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

The problem isn’t that it’s more profitable (since it’s not true anymore). The problem is that it doesn’t require any specialized equipment and has a Low barrier of entry. You can spend a couple of tens of thousands on an empty lot and panels and generate electricity. Depending on where you live the lot may be the more expensive part.

[u/karpastenherra → u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

Oil is more profitable than solar.

No, it isn't. It is easier to use because it's an established way to produce energy, but it definitely is not more profitable.

[u/AceBean27 → u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

The main reason is that as good as solar is for home power, it is not as good for military applications. Planes and helicopters and missiles aren't going to be solar powered anytime soon. Oil will hold the governments by the balls so long as the military needs oil.

[u/SawachikaEri-enjoyer → u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

Used to be more affordable. Now oil and coal needs state subsidies to stay profitable.

[u/Ryaniseplin → u/acceptbellybuttonpic]

solar is more profitable now

but the problem is they cant sell the sun

[u/wisnshaftler]

Peter's twin here, I think this is about the solar energy, and the rich guys are oil companies

[u/Mindless_Chest_1079 → u/wisnshaftler]

Solar is growing rapidly. This has been true for over a decade. I don't think the guy has a specific group of people even a specific identifiable thing he's angry about. It's just "rich people are spooky" in the vaguest sense.

[u/mrpeck123]

Who’s got that picture talking about posters on this sub being the dumbest people alive?

[u/lakewood13 → u/mrpeck123]

[u/Kinteoka → u/mrpeck123]

They disabled the use of gifs in this sub because too many people were posting it and pointing out how this sub is the stupidest bit farm to ever exist.

[u/Beetle_The_SilkWing → u/mrpeck123]

I have one thats a YouTube thumbnail where the title is "all peterexplainsthejoke bosses no commentary" and the bosses are those dumb Patrick memes. No image in this comment because I'm on mobile unfortunately 

[u/RealisticDebt9380]

The real tragedy is we said no to nuclear, it's way better than solar and wind

[u/nevaehenimatek → u/RealisticDebt9380]

I'm Australian, we have most of the world's uranium, I am very pro science and was always for nuclear.

However now the cost of renewables at least here is significantly cheaper than nuclear. The CSIRO our head science agency costed if last election when it was proposed to start nuclear.

Could still work for other countries but basically sailed for us here.

[u/None_of_your_Beezwax → u/nevaehenimatek]

It's only apparently cheaper because of the way energy markets work.

That's the scam.

It drives up operating costs for reliable sources and prices consumers by making it more likely that the last bit of energy produced is produced by a really ecpensive backup.

An honest assessment would assign renewables the same cost as the market pricing mechanism to the costumer per unit of time, in addition to covering the increased upkeep and maintenance of reliable sources.

Levelized Cost of Electricity is like Hollywood account for energy.

[u/CaptainHubble → u/nevaehenimatek]

It makes no sense at this point to even bother with the cost and logistics nightmare of nuclear if any of the renewables are possible in a certain area.

It’s super cheap. It’s quickly build. It’s low maintenance. It’s decentralised, thus reliable. It’s safe.

I studied that stuff for years and nuclear is and was always interesting for people like us. But then you walk through all the reasonable options we have nowadays and realise, nuclear is more of a relic of the „nothing is impossible nukepunk“ 60s mindset.

It works. Sure. But why should you? You can just build 100 offshore wind turbines in no time and make up for a big nuclear power plant that would take years to build.

The future is a decentralised grid made of wind, solar, hydro backing up each other. Plus more and more storage of different kinds. Let it be batteries, electrolysis or genuinely use the thermal capacity of the people’s home and heat/cool when there is over production.

But who am I kidding? Nothing will happen. We will use fossiles until we all die.

[u/AccountSad → u/RealisticDebt9380]

Only logical answer

[u/Historical-Record227]

The commentor seems to be suggesting that a cabal of wealthy elites prevented the introduction of fusion technology as a key part of human energy production.

[u/Cafe_negro]

Why 'earth' and not civilization? Earth will still be around after we destroy ourselves.

[u/NoCraft2936 → u/Cafe_negro]

The planets not going anywhere, people are

[u/Signlan → u/Cafe_negro]

Why are you being so pedantic

[u/Restoriust]

Solar. Though it’s not actually 12 people. Most utility companies have people that go in on a mix. All can and do invest in solar but if you check the behind the scenes reliability of it, it’s not great. Good in the summer, shitty in the winter. Better to have something like nuclear and then supplemental solar and hydro.

Source: it’s my job

[u/Dede_42 → u/Restoriust]

Happy cake day!

[u/Rivka333]

I'm guessing this is referring some conspiracy theory.

Don't get me wrong, it's true that rich guys are powerful. But he didn't just say "a bunch of rich guys." He gave an exact number. That level of detail is what sounds to me like referencing some specific conspiracy theory.

[u/Vassago81 → u/Rivka333]

It's like the "they killed the electric car" conspiracy nutbag back in the day.

Electric cars were fucking expensive and sucked balls until lithium battery got cheaper and some weirdo decided to buy a T-zero and stuff it with laptop batteries for fun.

[u/MIB4u0]

no joke here, just truth

[u/scumble_bee → u/MIB4u0]

Did you know that the main opponents of extended maternity leave are companies that make baby formula? Because babies in daycare are more likely to use formula vs pumped and stored breast milk. These same companies gave free 1 month samples of formula to women to get them to stop producing milk, so they can make them reliant on buying formula.

[u/machobiscuit]

They argue solar power isn't viable because it gets cloudy, but then why are all the flock cameras solar powered?

[u/Parapraxium → u/machobiscuit]

Because it's easy to overbuild panels on a flock camera to operate during stretches of inclement weather, less so to scale up a giant ass solar farm

[u/Scarecr0p]

Long story short. Nuclear is the most sustainable and economical power source right now

[u/EffortEqual8469 → u/Scarecr0p]

but idiots still find a way to hate on nuclear somehow

[u/--var]

reminder for the US folks, December 4th 2026 is when the new anti-renewable energy rules take effect. get your panels now!

https://a1solarstore.com/blog/solar-panel-prices-just-got-a-price-floor-what-the-new-tariff-rule-means-for-your-next-quote.html

[u/DuceSayori]

everybody seems to think it’s referring to solar energy, i think it’s more likely talking about nuclear fusion

[u/gluedtothesky]

Stewart griffin in da house, spider man 2 meme possibly? Doctor octopus was working on a sun based energy source that was ment to be incredibly powerful but of course it is not stable and the investors ( 12 rich guys) pull his funding . Doctor then goes on to rob banks and export raw materials from Oscorp inorder to rebuild his machine.

[u/EvilWarBW]

How this went over OPs head os amazing

[u/CauseAccomplished617]

i thought it was a cat at first

[u/globehopper2]

Would just like to add to what people were saying about solar that if the 2024 election had gone the other way, we would be transitioning to renewable energy much faster due to things that were passed by the Dems that Trump canceled (in some cases likely illegally). He literally paid a company nearly a billion dollars NOT to build wind turbines even though the project was going to lower people’s energy bills. And the handful of right wing billionaires supporting Trump played a key role in the outcome of the election.

[u/LairdPeon]

The top rich guy literally makes most of the panels.

[u/Kr0pi]

Nuclear is the way to go:)

[u/silentbob1301]

Oil barons and other very rich people don't like the idea of cheap, accessible power. It cuts into their profits

[u/Hot_Pilot_3293]

Kinda crazy that we have an infinite amount of energy just floating in the air but people opt to use the limited option that damages our environment just because it’s cheaper(for the short term)

[u/Anxious_Contact_1201]

L rich people

[u/MolassesNo609]

Why does such a fucking stupid post have this many upvotes