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u/MikeBinfinity 8h ago
Civil forfeiture is what local police use to legally steal other people's property. There's stories of police taking cash, cars and even entire houses all because they believe its being used to commit a crime, a crime that hasn't happened or any hard evidence that it will happen.
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u/aylaa157 5h ago
Probably will extend Civil forfeiture to include property. Bag of weed? The cops now own your house?
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u/who_even_cares35 4h ago
They'll be dragging my dead body over at least a couple of their buddies dead bodies before I'll let that happen
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u/aylaa157 3h ago
Drones and robot dogs will be sent in, and all your devices have already mapped every inch of your houses layout.
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u/justsomeguyfromny 3h ago
Crazy. I read WiFi routers and Bluetooth devices can map a house or apartment out… can anyone confirm this? Sounds plausible.
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u/ur-average-geek 3h ago
I havent heard of any applications for wall detection. But mapping out human presence using routers is well documented.
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u/CeruleanFruitSnax 2h ago
Not just what the house looks like, they can also plot voids in the air, meaning they can often see where a person is in a room.
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u/aylaa157 3h ago
100%. They can also record you through the tv speaker, though all smart tvs have microphones.
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u/much_longer_username 1h ago
Basically, it's like shining a light that goes through walls. You can use it to make a picture. It's harder than with a photograph of visible light, but you can do it.
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u/ill____logic 2h ago
not police related, but kinda similar; eminent domain exists.
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u/Kanthalas 1h ago
At least with eminent domain they have to reimburse you for the cost of your property.
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u/CMDR_Tauri 59m ago
They already do whatever they want. They can take everything from you without seizing anything. They'll just destroy whatever they want to.
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u/permoban3000 7h ago
Its literally theft in the billions. Acab
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u/DiamondfromBrasil 2h ago
when someone agrees with you but on the most annoying way possible^
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u/permoban3000 2h ago
Cope harder
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u/DiamondfromBrasil 2h ago
"cope harder" and you are calling all cops bad for...being cops?
how am i the one coping here?
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u/underboobfunk 4h ago
Correction: they claim the property is being used criminally. There’s no indication that they actually believe anything except that they want your property.
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u/nascent_aviator 4h ago
Which has nothing to do with this case. He was convicted of a crime, and the penalty for that crime mandated the criminal forfeiture of his plane.
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u/vertigostereo 1h ago
I saw a case of civil asset forfeiture where the stole every object inside of a man's apartment, including furniture. It took him years to win, and when he did, they told him his possessions had been auctioned of in the interim anyway. Oops, I guess? I believe he was growing weed in the early days of legalization in Colorado. The Obama Justice Department was notorious for this, although I doubt it has improved much.
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u/SaintJesus 4h ago
"Believed" it was used.
It's theft a lot of the time (probably most) with no sincere belief it was used in commission of a crime.
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u/NickWeinstock18 1h ago
Easiest way to get Congress to do something about it: next President uses civil forfeiture to take all Trump's "personal gifts" on the basis of "suspected" bribery, insider trading, or similar. The airplane, the gold bar lamp, all stock and bitcoin proceeds, etc.
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u/Desperate-4-Revenue 4h ago
but this was used to commit a crime.
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u/Twaffles95 4h ago
What crime?
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u/Desperate-4-Revenue 4h ago
delivering alcohol to a community with an alcohol ban in place, cant you read or dont they teach americans to have basic comprehension anymore.
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u/Twaffles95 4h ago
What crime was committed? The alcohol never got brought to the town
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u/nascent_aviator 59m ago
AK Stat § 04.11.499(c)(1):
“transport” means to ship by any method, and includes delivering or transferring or attempting or soliciting to deliver or transfer an alcoholic beverage to be shipped to, delivered to, or left or held for pickup by any person.
The woman who owned the beer committed a crime as soon as she tried to get the pilot to deliver it. And the pilot committed the crime as soon as he knowingly loaded it on the plane and then started preparing to takeoff.
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u/avacar 1h ago
It was definitely a crime to transport booze to a dry county. It was openly visible in the plane and his itinerary was to deliver that alcohol to a place it was not allowed.
Do you not know what smuggling is or how that crime works? He got caught red handed smuggling booze into a dry county. You're free to disagree with it. But since you're probably not a voter in those counties, no one cares.
Civil asset forfeiture is usually a scam. In this unique case, it really isn't. He was using that plane to actively commit a crime. Sucking enough that he got caught exonerates literally nothing.
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u/Desperate-4-Revenue 4h ago
he had delivered booze there many many times over the last 14 years. And if you didnt notice, in America , Intent is enough. hence 'conspiracy to commit murder' is a crime, even if not completed. absolutely astounding they let you guys breed being that dumb.
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u/TonyStarksLeftACL 3h ago
Non US resident lecturing on US criminal law? What a time we live in.
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u/Desperate-4-Revenue 3h ago
well someone with brains needs to be involved. hows that tangerine toddler toucher you guys worship?
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u/WhiteCastleDoctrine 8h ago
am i missing something? transporting alcholol is perfectly legal, otherwise how else would you get it home from the store?
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u/BathFullOfDucks 8h ago edited 7h ago
The town he was flying to banned alcohol in 2004. His passenger had bought and included beer in their luggage. The supreme Court of alaska found he must have known about a single six pack and ruled against him.
He hadn't actually taken off yet either. No actual importation had occurred. Not a great look, alaska.
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u/Blue-Blazer-Regular 5h ago
Imagine living in that Alaskan town and not being able to drink. What kind of hellhole is that?
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u/-stealthed- 4h ago
A hellhole with a lot of hidden stills in the woods I think
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u/nascent_aviator 1h ago
Yeah I'm sure the rural village of 48 people that voted to ban alcohol has tooons of stills in the woods. Hundreds or even thousands! /s
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u/jubalhonsu 4h ago
Alaska has serious drink problems. Villages can be classified as dry (all alcohol is bannded) damp (illegal to sell, but legal to own) or wet (fully legal)
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u/SockeyeSTI 3h ago
I go to one village every summer for commercial fishing. Only accessible by plane or boat. No grocery store, restaurant or anything.
But they had a liquor store. It’s since closed in the last decade so now everyone shops in pallets of alcohol on a barge.
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u/DDPJBL 2h ago
Such low levels of government as individual villages having discretion over what normally would be a matter of state/national law like prohibiting substances is wild.
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u/Alternative_Swan_497 2h ago
That's how self-determination works. In this case, these villages are remote enough that they don't have readily available access to a lot of things - like healthcare beyond a basic clinic, law enforcement, etc.
If the state cannot guarantee they'll be able to resolve a conflict (or take care of their citizens), then the appropriate response is to allow local governments to have this discretion. Substance abuse and domestic violence often run rampant in these communities - banning booze helps mitigate that.
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u/avacar 1h ago
There are 200+ dry counties in the US. It's not that rare.
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u/bonaynay 42m ago
It's rare for them to make it illegal for having a single 6 pack, most dry counties just prohibit the sale
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u/nascent_aviator 1h ago
Rural Alaska is like a different world from the rest of the United States. A rural Alaskan village can be almost or entirely unreachable for months at a time. A lot of things that don't make sense for us make sense for them.
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u/avacar 1h ago
This is also common in the south. Have you not traveled much? We over 200 full dry counties.
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u/Ancient-Afternoon374 13m ago
Have you ever been to a rural village in Alaska? I have many times. You must not travel much.
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u/UnlamentedLord 3h ago
A native hellhole. They are particularly succeptable to alcoholism so impose strict laws on their reservations to combat the issue.
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u/That1gayaccount 4h ago
One that becomes a considerably more dangerous hellhole when the residents are drunk
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u/LONE_ARMADILLO 3h ago
One of the big danger is passing out drunk on your porch. In Alaska's cold that can be lethal.
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u/karmicviolence 4h ago
They still drinking moonshine for sure.
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u/outlaw99775 4h ago
You almost never hear about people distilling in dry villages. Usually they just make "homebrew" from sugar water and bread yeast.
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u/a-stack-of-masks 4h ago
One where the local authorities get kickbacks from whoever sells their meth.
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u/welpWW3isgonnasuck 2h ago
It was actually 3 cases of beer and the police alleged that Jouppi had clear like of sight of a 6 pack.
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u/Clocktopu5 1h ago
I flew into villages so many times for work and let me tell you, every dry town is drunk as shit.
Tuluksak was a helluva place, we stayed with the principal when we were there. He told us some of the 6 year olds were addicted to huffing gas... and if you saw the kids you would fucking believe it.
So i get the meed to protect the community but a single six pack is nothing
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u/Legend_of_Moblin 2h ago
They should seize that guys luggage and not the plane. Where has common sense gone? Also, great way to stop planes from flying into that community.
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u/WhiteTrashIdiotFuck 9m ago
This guy is also a known bootlegger with a record to prove it. It’s not like they just took his plane because of some sort of mix up. He had a history of smuggling alcohol.
For those that don’t know; yes, alcohol is illegal contraband in several places in Alaska. These laws are passed by the indigenous population for the protection of the indigenous population. Many Native Americans have a predisposition to alcoholism.
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u/nascent_aviator 3h ago edited 1h ago
No actual importation had occurred
Attempted importation is illegal regardless of whether you ultimately succeed or not. AK Stat § 04.11.499(c)(1):
“transport” means to ship by any method, and includes delivering or transferring or attempting or soliciting to deliver or transfer an alcoholic beverage to be shipped to, delivered to, or left or held for pickup by any person.
How would you expect this to be enforced otherwise? Do the state police have to follow you in a stealth plane until you land and then land behind you? Keep in mind the villages they're smuggling alcohol to are literally reachable only by plane and have two digit populations.
Edit: bring on the downvotes for accurately stating the law.
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u/Desperate-4-Revenue 6h ago edited 6h ago
It happened repeatedly, he was supplying a dry town knowingly. Plane should be cubed.
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u/HVAChelpprettyplease 6h ago
A ton of American history is based on bootlegging.
It’s in our blood, which happens to have some alcohol as well
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u/Desperate-4-Revenue 6h ago
So.. He broke the law and endangered a first nation town so its okay because why?
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u/TheNakedBass 5h ago
I worked in a dry First Nation town for a while… they huffed gas instead.
Maybe the beer isn’t so bad.
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u/Dry-Shower9037 5h ago
If a First Nation town is endangered by a six pack of Budweiser, then this guy is the least of their worries.
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5h ago
[deleted]
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u/Dry-Shower9037 5h ago
OK, so enough for 10 guys to get a buzz one night or a couple guys for a weeklong trip? This is the downfall of the First Nation? I don't think so little of them.
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u/Axthen 5h ago
First nation town...? This happened in the US, not Canada, buddy.
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u/PossibleEssay7891 5h ago
First Nation refers to native tribal lands in the US? Edit: never realized Native American/First Nation were US/Canadian terms until now. TIL
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u/RadicalRealist22 5h ago
It is barely worrh a fine. Stealing a plane for a six-pack is insane.
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u/Desperate-4-Revenue 5h ago edited 5h ago
They've been trying to get him to stop for a decade. But tgats okay cause Murika and Racism
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u/StrawberryWide3983 5h ago
A single six-pack for an entire town. Don't you know a 1ml drop of beer is enough to overdose 200 people?
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u/B0r3dGamer 7h ago
Yeah, one of the passengers had a 6 pack & he was flying him to a dry county. He didn't see the alcohol because it was in a grocery bag. The State Troopers claim otherwise.
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u/KatzDeli 4h ago
It wasn't a six pack. It was 72 beers. It was a visible 6 pack that cause the search.
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u/Electronic-Flower921 8h ago
I forget the entire story but I think the guy lives in a county has ridiculously anti alcohol laws
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u/texasisbetterest 8h ago
Parts of Alaska are super strict with alcohol from what I understand
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u/StinkyBrittches 7h ago
Why? I thought people went to Alaska to drink themselves into oblivion in the comfort of the vast, dark, nothingness? Also, what else is there to do?
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u/texasisbetterest 7h ago
Exactly that. It’s an isolated place with depressing weather. Alcoholism is a super rampant problem for them. Not in a Wisconsin lifestyle fun thing, but in a danger to society kinda thing.
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u/Direct_Obligation570 6h ago
Its a native village, they are known for having problems with alcohol.
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u/natethegreek 5h ago
Native Americans have issues with alcohol, like actual biological issues, many are allergic. They voted to now allow it in their community.
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u/Wabbajack001 2h ago
That just some old scholl bullshit/racism, there's no "biological issues" native american. Just a socioeconomic issue since 400 years old.
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u/natethegreek 1h ago
There are genetic differences between different types of people. I am not saying there is one that is inferior or superior. The real answer is possibly both.
While there may be some genetic influence on alcohol dependence within Native American populations, such as the California Indian population, the evidence is mixed.
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u/Wabbajack001 1h ago
So there's no proof, they "may be some genetic influences" and the evidence is mixed doesn't mean native American have biological issue with alcohol.
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u/yogiyogiyogi69 5h ago
Yes you are missing most of the story. Alot of important details have been left out to make you feel bad for the old man
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5h ago
[deleted]
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u/Antique_Ruin7646 4h ago
14 years for 2 whole cases of beer. You're just proving our point... Shit detective work.
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u/igotzquestions 4h ago
I would love to see the investigation on this.
“Jan 14: another near miss. Reviewed luggage and only found Code Red Mountain Dew. We’re close.”
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u/kevcubed 1h ago
I was goign to say, I have my pilot's license and I've flown an entire 5 gal keg of homemade beer to a weekend camping trip. Obviously it wasn't opened and all of us were perfectly sober for the entire flight, I have a very strict 0.00 and 8 hrs bottle to throttle rule. Under Part 91 rules private non-commercial flights, the passengers can even drink while in flight but I never allowed this.
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u/nascent_aviator 1h ago
But under 14 CFR § 91.17b you can't allow anyone intoxicated to be carried. Which puts you in a dilemma if they get drunk onboard. By my reading you have no choice but to push them out! 🤔
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u/avacar 1h ago
Bet you didn't deliver it to a dry county though. Which totally is a crime.
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u/kevcubed 1h ago
No comment on that aspect. Just commenting on the legalities of transporting/consuming alcohol in a private plane.
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u/avacar 1h ago
Not to a dry county. Like, read a little? It's an extremely strict dry county. That's why they were smuggling it by plane.
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u/Embarrassed_Mix_6619 1h ago
okay? so a passenger was smuggling something, not the owner of the plane. And, the plane hadn’t even taken off, so he hadn’t even committed the crime? do you think small pilots are required to do a fuckin TSA check of every single person and their luggage they allow on the plane?
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u/No-Ant-9159 4h ago
Police departments all over the country literally have Civil Asset Forfeiture as a part of their budget. They put in how much they think they will steal seize, then make sure they steal seize that much in order to pay for stuff. They are HEAVILY incentivized to steal seize people stuff.
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u/Devillicious1981 7h ago
I wonder if the government will benefit in some way from the upcoming ruling…. /s
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u/Bella_Peachyy 8h ago
Some cases are used to re-write the law. That is all. It was never about the beer.
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u/No-Plan8216 2h ago
Why do you call it a 6-pack when it was 8 6-packs.
And, the owner/pilot was aware
Alcohol has nearly destroyed Beaver. For an outsider to knowingly participate in importing booze to that dry village is just idiotic and cruel.
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u/thecashlessclay 1h ago
Good lord, you must be fun at parties. By my calculations that’s 1 beer per resident, definitely enough to wreak some serious havoc 😂
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u/Zealousideal_Yam_985 3h ago
& they don’t have to prove it was part of a crime, they only need to suspect it. Then the burden is on you to prove that it was legally acquired.
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u/NEWSmodsareTwats 1h ago
ngl this post is not telling the whole story
he was an Alaskan bush pilot who was making a supply run out to one of the native villages that can only be reached via plane or river boat. basically all these villages are dry with insane penalties for alcohol smuggling because alcoholism is a massive issue in these villages. State troopers stopped him as he was loading his plane and saw the six pack visibly sitting in the front of the plane. Based on the flight itinerary that is a prohibited item, after a search they found an additional 3 cases of beet stashed in the luggage hold.
A lot of people seem to think that because the goods belonged to the person he was delivering them for, that means he has no liability at all. But here's the thing. He wasn't given a crate and told to ship it to the village that he never opened and later turned out it had beer inside of it. He was clearly given alcohol and asked to transport it to a place where he knew it was illegal to transport it to. It would be like if I handed a UPS driver a brick of cocaine and asked them to ship it cross country for me.
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u/therealtiddlydump 1h ago edited 1h ago
And the fine for that is seizure of a $100k airplane?
Ever heard of the Eighth Amendment?
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Edit: I would point you to the Timbs case, which was (perhaps unsurprisingly) successfully argued by the same public interest law firm involved in this Alaska case (the Institute for Justice).
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u/nascent_aviator 42m ago
It's literally mandated in the law that a plane used by its owner to smuggle alcohol be forfeited. It's not the same as a $100k fine (which may well be excessive), it's a forfeiture of the actual vehicle used in commission of the crime.
As far as the law is concerned, the fine here is "one plane," and it's not really Alaska's fault if that plane happens to be a $100k Stationair or a $15k ultralight.
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u/therealtiddlydump 24m ago
It does matter, because the US Constitution says it matters. A State can't evade the Excessive Fines clause of the 8A (which has been incorporated against the states explicitly in Timbs, as I linked) by saying "zomg, it's just one plane!".
The vehicle in Timbs was half the value we're taking about here.
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u/mlody11 12m ago
But copying 1 album of 10 songs means a 300k fine. That's not excessive? Yes, I know Clause does not apply statutory damages, eg private party, so if you owe a company excessive fines, thats ok, but if it's a government, not ok. Ridiculous... Just another example of the ridiculous amount of power corporations. In this case, more than the government.
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u/therealtiddlydump 8m ago
Civil damages are different because words mean things? If your doctor is negligent you should be and to recover damages that remedy the harm (subject to some statutory limits).
You can understand how that's different than the government taking your shit, right?
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u/__que_sera_sera__ 5m ago
I am not a lawyer, but this guy was not caught smuggling. He was “caught” with what the officer believed was an intent to smuggle. Requiring someone to forfeit a $100,000 plane because they were suspected of intending to smuggle seems extreme. Beer in the plane is not evidence in itself of intent to smuggle.
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u/Romeo_Glacier 38m ago
It wasn’t his first time doing so either. It is why the state trooper has a sting set up to catch him. Also the initial judge went outside of the law which requires seizure of the plane. It is why a higher court ordered it being seized.
Source: I am Alaskan
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u/SpeedBlitzX 7h ago
That plane costs less than some peoples cars
In my ipinion though. Just because he transported beer doesn't mean he should lose his plane outright.
Usually with things like this is. Isn't there usually a fine to pay?
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u/That2ndIowanGuy 5h ago
Civil asset forfeiture isn’t about a crime being committed or a fine needing to be paid. It’s a bad problem in some states. If you have $10,000 cash in you, and cops pull you over and find this out, they can say “Well we think you could use this money to buy drugs, why else would you have this much cash?” And then seize your money with no arrest or citation
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u/UnlamentedLord 3h ago
This case is BS, but has nothing to do with civil asset forfeiture. He was convicted, so it's criminal asset forfeiture.
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u/That2ndIowanGuy 15m ago
Eighth Amendment’s extensive fine clause. Whether this is a civil asset forfeiture which you claim it isn’t, or unconstitutional under the Eighth Amendment, it’s still wrong.
Legal brained morons will never consider what’s good or fair and will strictly only adhere to what’s legal, which is what you are seemingly doing
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u/WhaWereWhenWhyWhoHow 6h ago
The plane never took off. State troopers searched before take off.
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u/glassjarwoodtable 6h ago
So nothing illegal occurred. What if the guy drank all six before they entered the dry county?
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u/WhaWereWhenWhyWhoHow 6h ago
I knew nothing about this so i looked it up. Cops still would have found beers as the passenger had 2 cases and 3 more 6 packs hidden in her luggage
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u/Deep-Reputation-4055 3h ago
He had been caught moving alcohol to a dry community before. This wasn’t his first rodeo.
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u/V65Pilot 2h ago
As a motorcyclist who used to visit a dry county all the time (it's not dry anymore), there was a store right at the county line where we would stop to stock up for the nights campsite revelry.
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u/Deep-Reputation-4055 2h ago
I’ve lived in a dry community before. It was illegal to sell alcohol, not possess it. The Alaskan community in question banned bringing it in to the community.
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u/justbleachmyeyes 6h ago
I’m very certain we packed beers in our pilots travel pods in the air force
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u/Environmental-Ice319 2h ago
Seems like bullshit karma post. Excessive? Yeah that's not what a real person would say.
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u/kiefy_budz 5h ago
Bro fuck prohibition
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u/NEWSmodsareTwats 1h ago
tbh Prohibition in these native villages has nothing to do with any type of moralistic stance. alcohol is legal in many native villages because when alcohol is available, a very large percentage of the population turns into alcoholics. in some villages more than half of families experience domestic violence due to alcoholism.
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u/kiefy_budz 1h ago
That’s still a moral stance and we can offer treatment and responsibility education instead of prohibition, prohibition has never helped it has only hurt more people
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u/NEWSmodsareTwats 1h ago
tell that to the dry native villages where they have experienced a precipitous decline in domestic violence serious assaults and emergency medical visit. we should tell them these improvements are all in their head and the alcohol should flow freely.
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u/kiefy_budz 1h ago
How did you take that from what I said? I don’t think anyone should drink, it’s one of the least fun drugs and it has negative outcomes across the board. But what you said were reasons to self regulate and learn about responsible drug use
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u/Phewelish 3h ago
what stops someone from intentionally doing something like this just to push new laws in place?
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