California's incarcerated firefighters handle nearly half of the state's emergency wildfire hours. A new law will give them standardized credentials and a hiring preference for entry-level Cal Fire jobs after release, creating a path to six-figure careers and state pensions.

[u/ArgentineBeauty]

https://calmatters.org/justice/2026/09/prison-firefighters-cal-fire-jobs/

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[u/Banndrell]

I'd love to see how positively this affects the recidivism rate for these people. What a great idea.

[u/hellraiserl33t → u/Banndrell]

It's almost like *GASP* actual rehabilitation/reintegration works and the vast majority of people who find themselves in our prison system aren't a lost cause.

Being a felon makes it unbelievably difficult to live a normal life and recover after you're out.

[u/sck178 → u/hellraiserl33t]

I honestly know very little about prisons and literally nothing about the history of them, but I'm curious. At any point were prisons actually successful at rehabilitation? Like to the point where there was sustained success?

Edit: I'm not sure if that question even makes sense but it's what I got... So I preemptively apologize if anyone reads this and thinks "wtf is this dumbass asking??"

[u/highcoolteacher → u/sck178]

It’s not just the time in prison, it’s the hurdles and restrictions when they are out. Limited employment opportunities, ineligible for government assistance, even for family programs. Parole requirements. Fees in some states

[u/Coakis → u/highcoolteacher]

The fact that a child or family has to pay for a persons sins even though they served their time and or even has tried to do right after his conviction shows how depraved our system is.

[u/AWzdShouldKnowBetta → u/Coakis]

I agree. The time served is the punishment. Adding bullshit on for the rest of their lives is absurd.

[u/Kero992 → u/sck178]

In most other Western countries, yes. But since the US uses prisons as slave labor camps, there is no interest in rehabilitation

[u/hellraiserl33t → u/Kero992]

I'm in California, and I'm still very upset that Prop 6 didn't pass in the 2024 election) that had to do with forced prison labor. IN CALIFORNIA

The best part is that there were ZERO opposing arguments or money raised and the people still voted no.

It's disgusting how many Americans see prisoners as less worthy of normal human rights that we've literally fought wars over. I'm pretty sure other developed countries don't do this.

[u/Drewicho → u/hellraiserl33t]

Here in America, people care more about punishment and revenge under the guise of paying your debt to society and justice than rehabilitation.

[u/Uncynical_Diogenes → u/Drewicho]

Our schooling spends a lot of time belaboring how the Puritans left Europe for “religious freedom”.

In England, they remember that the Puritans were fucking assholes and they left because nobody wanted to deal with them.

That Puritanism runs deep in our country’s mythos.

[u/Malevolent_Nematode → u/Uncynical_Diogenes]

Ugh the puritans. I went down that rabbit hole in high school after being made to suffer through the scarlet letter 3 years in a row.

[u/daguito81 → u/Uncynical_Diogenes]

Well TIL to be honest

[u/Puresowns → u/daguito81]

Yeah the religious freedom puritans wanted was the freedom to force everyone to live the way they did. No one was stopping them from having an austere lifestyle, they just wanted everyone else to have to be miserable too.

[u/FlukemanFrancis → u/Puresowns]

The irony being if they’d stayed in England for another few years they would have been on the winning side in the English civil war, and part of the ruling puritan protectorate under Cromwell that replaced the crown. They’d have been part of forcing England to live by their rules, exactly as they wanted.

Of course ultimately the whole country being run by puritans doing shit like banning Christmas ended with the whole country rejecting Puritanism entirely, inviting King Charles II back to be king and launching a decade of debauchery across society.

In the long run it probably would have been better for the world, imagine a USA founded without the strong influence of the joyless puritan movement.

[u/DarknessHadNoNeed → u/Puresowns]

I mean, it was kinda both. They were being persecuted in England, but that was for being "non-conformists" who refused to attend Church of England services which was very frowned upon for commoners by the political establishment in the 1500s-1900s (The debate over which lead to "establishmentarianism", "disestabilshmentarianism", and that five dollar word "antidisestablishmentarianism")

Edit: Forgot to close my bracket

[u/-Knockabout → u/Drewicho]

Not even rehabilitation. They care about it more than a better outcome for everyone, less crime due to less recidivism. Even if you don't care about rehabilitation at all, the best solution for everyone is to have as many people as possible not commit crimes in the first place. And yet, people endlessly campaign against those programs...

[u/Orvan-Rabbit → u/Drewicho]

Americans live in a Christian derived culture that thinks that there are good people and evil people and evil must be punished.

[u/Sarenai7 → u/Orvan-Rabbit]

The ironic thing is that was what Jesus was against. Their own Bible shows that he befriended and showed care towards the “evil” people of the time; tax collectors, prostitutes, addicts and the “good” people of the time hated him and killed him.

It’s ironic seeing them take on the same stances as the Pharisees responsible for his death

[u/notepad20 → u/Orvan-Rabbit]

Christian derived culture

as are the other cultures that are championed as examples of how to do rehabilitation properly.

US specifically is influenced by the puritan movement, rather than any broad "Christian" concept, arguably trying to sperate themselves as much as possible

[u/kitsunewarlock → u/notepad20]

They are, but they went through the Age of Reason and started becoming more secular. America did too, but then had the Great Awakening and revitalized religious fundamentalism.

[u/Jenn0kx → u/Drewicho]

This is a huge part of why the reaction to the Lindsay Clancey case was so incendiary. People were so ready for her to meet a violent end or be incarcerated for life rather than for her to be treated for the mental illness she tried to get treated before she killed her kids.

[u/Malevolent_Nematode → u/hellraiserl33t]

Sucks in texas too. Apparently we should just let inmates die from extreme heat.

"Prisoners don't need AC."

"if they wanted to be comfortable they shouldn't have gone to prison"

The way i see it is that being in prison is the punishment. Denying inmates basic necessities for survival like air conditioning or water is just cruel and unusual punishment.

[u/SyntheticDreams_ → u/Malevolent_Nematode]

I wonder if it's that on some level, some of these punishment focused folks hate themselves. Like they see themselves as unworthy of basic necessities, and/or regard some of those as luxuries, so of course they would deny disliked others those things too.

Same for if someone stays uncomfortable for financial reasons, so the idea of a criminal consistently receiving what they can't afford to have themselves, and the idea that it's necessary to have, is ludicrous.

[u/DrJohnDorian998 → u/hellraiserl33t]

Warden Norton said what most people think, “As far as I'm concerned, there's only three ways to spend the taxpayers' hard-earned when it comes to prisons: more walls, more bars, and more guards.”

[u/PerpetuallyLurking → u/DrJohnDorian998]

But it wasn’t even about spending any money on prisons or prisoners! No taxpayer money would’ve been affected. Abolishing the ability to rent out prisoners as slave labour wouldn’t cost taxpayers much of anything, really.

[u/Junior-Possession969 → u/PerpetuallyLurking]

Business owners don't like it when you take away their less-than-minimum-wage employees. Just look at big Ag and immigration right now.

[u/spunky-chicken10 → u/PerpetuallyLurking]

I remember when that was on the ballot, it was worded so weirdly I had to read it out loud several times and then google it to figure out what they were saying. It seemed intentional.

[u/FreeRangeEngineer → u/spunky-chicken10]

It always is. The wording is intentionally confusing.

[u/hellraiserl33t → u/DrJohnDorian998]

I need to rewatch Shawshank, it's been too long

[u/IrksomFlotsom → u/hellraiserl33t]

Prosperity doctrine brainwashing

[u/ImAShaaaark → u/hellraiserl33t]

Pretty much everyone who is familiar with the situation is pretty sure the language on the ballot is what tanked it. People are dumb and the language was "unclear", so people defaulted to NO since they didn't understand it.

[u/Titanicman2016 → u/ImAShaaaark]

Yeah, Nevada had an equivalent question on their ballot and it passed because the wording was more explicitly “Should Nevada ban slavery in prisons”

[u/MC_Queen → u/hellraiserl33t]

That really speaks to a cultural mentality. We tend to throw people away when we see them as having done wrong. And I think it is intentionally framed that way to encourage recidivism to maintain the slave labor of inmates so corporations and prisons can continue to make huge profits without paying workers.

[u/Faolyn → u/Kero992]

According to [this](worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-country), if this is accurate, after 5 years, the US has a re-conviction rate of 45%, which--and this surprised me--is far less than the UK's 5-year re-conviction rate of 72%, a fair bit Italy, Estona, France, or New Zealand, and about the same as Israel. In general, the US's rates after 2 years were comparable to those of Sweden and Denmark, who didn't have 5-year studies.

So, the US definitely needs to improve, but so do a lot of countries. Mind, the data is all old, with the studies being done 10 or 20 years ago, so who knows how things have changed in those other countries by now. They may have gotten a lot better or we may have gotten worse.

[u/IChurnToBurn → u/Faolyn]

I wonder if the fact that the US has by far the highest incarcerated rate of populism has to do with that fact. We in-prison so many people, we are bound to have a pretty high number that aren’t real criminals that would repeat.

[u/Faolyn → u/IChurnToBurn]

We definitely imprison people at vastly different rates depending on location. I don't know much about punishment in other countries, but in the US the same crime could be fined or get probation with time served in one state or country and years or longer in jail in another. And yeah, a lot of people are wrongly imprisoned.

[u/nleksan → u/Faolyn]

The US makes up 4% of the world population, and makes up 20% of the total number of incarcerated people on the planet

[u/Enough_Efficiency178 → u/Faolyn]

I’d think we’d also need to break down the reoffending based on a prison quality of life system too. Sort of a weighted multiplier

As in, do some people reoffend because their quality of life is actually better in prison

And do better prisons increase/decrease reoffending rates.

[u/LeonJPancetta → u/Kero992]

If people read this and go "this is an exaggeration", no it is not it is literally in the constitution in about as clear a wording as you can get

[u/DigiornoDLC → u/sck178]

It’s important to know that slavery was never abolished in the US. This isn’t some conspiratorial thinking, there’s literally an exception carved out in the 13th amendment. Prisoners can be used as literal slaves, so there’s an incentive to keep people in the system.

[u/onemassive → u/sck178]

There are lots of countries around the world with lower crime rates and low recidivism rates because they focus on rehabilitation and look at people who commit crimes as more of a “lack of skills” than a moral failing. 

Part of the reason the US system really sucks is that we really love to punish people, to the point where we punish them for their entire lives. This leads to a vicious cycle where people who commit crimes end up seeing crime as their primary economic opportunity. Because it is. And they learn how to be better criminals in prison rather than learn other skills. 

[u/BlueMikeStu → u/onemassive]

And because they actively incentivize imprisoning certain people, so that they can use them for cheap prison labor for profit. The repeat offenders realize they're just going to be in and out for the rest of their lives and make peace with it.

[u/onemassive → u/BlueMikeStu]

A big part of it is just living in a low trust society where we prioritize ‘deserved’ punishment over ‘undeserved’ help. We’d rather spend a dollar punishing over helping because the people arent in our perceived in group.

[u/goodguyLTBB → u/sck178]

Scandinavian countries mostly have a history of successfully reintegrating by having much less aggressive prisons and much lower reincarnations rate than almost all other countries. This is not to say there’s zero flaw with their system, but you were asking about rehabilitation and those systems are leading.

[u/Ki-san → u/sck178]

In Norway our prisons are designed solely around rehabilitation, and thus we have the lowest reoffendig rate in the world

[u/BlueMikeStu → u/sck178]

Literally every single incarceration system in the civilized world has demonstrated that pathways to reintegration reduce recidivism. Punishing people by marginalizing them post-release with a label they can't escape and which denies them legal employment actively pushes them back towards illegal means of earning income so they don't starve.

[u/goodsnpr → u/hellraiserl33t]

I like how other countries treat their formerly convicted; if you apply for a job, the employee can ask for convictions that are only applicable to the job, such as tax evasion at financial services fitm.

[u/_steve_rogers_ → u/hellraiserl33t]

Countries like Sweden have the right idea. Over here it’s obvious how a for profit prison system can destroy a society.

[u/AssistanceCheap379 → u/Banndrell]

And if they move around since they have a greater potential for work, other states might consider it a decent way to move forward.

I mean, why waste millions of taxpayer money on incarcerating people over and over when they can learn while locked up and enter society as tax paying citizens with more stability and therefore less likely to return to crime

[u/generally_unsuitable → u/Banndrell]

It won't. Firefighting is pretty corrupt on the hiring side. It's all nephews and uncles and brothers and sons. It was a big scandal 10 years ago in Los Angeles. https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-county-fire-family-20141026-story.html

When a job has a 95% rejection rate, you can be pretty sure that almost no ex-cons are going to get those limited spots, with great bennies, huge overtime packages, and full pensions.

I'd be surprised if ten years after this takes effect, even 1% of CA firefighters are ex-cons.

[u/GitEmSteveDave → u/generally_unsuitable]

Big difference between local FD and wildfire stuff.

[u/Otherwise_Nobody8148 → u/generally_unsuitable]

That's very true, but this is not for municipal departments and the ones that they would be applying for would be people that have actively worked with them if not them individually.

And if there's one thing besides family that they still make a selections on, it's experience. And these guys weren't setting up the camp and cooking out there, they are smack dab in the mix and doing some of the hardest jobs, with less of the amenities and more shit to deal with.

A lot of these guys aren't going to be picked up. A decent amount of them are also going to be top candidates.

[u/bicycloptopus → u/generally_unsuitable]

Wildland is very different then structural

[u/Significant_Sun_4900]

I have a relative who's son got trapped in the gang culture in Southern California. They spent thousands of dollars and nearly lost their home on rehabilitation programs. He always got sucked back into that world. The last time, he applied to be part of the program that trains fire fighting. He is out, and successfully working as a California firefighter. Its the first time he's been a success story. It's such a joy to see him living as an independent person enjoying his life.

[u/remenes1 → u/Significant_Sun_4900]

I suspect being in a firefighting squadron is a sort of “gang” itself and an actual replacement providing the tight interpersonal bonds that so many troubled young men join gangs to feel, building the kind of ties that high adrenaline, life or death situations create. Instead of generic job placement programs that give you an income but no real social connections

[u/sillybilly8102 → u/remenes1]

It absolutely is a gang culture, or even cult-like. There is a fair amount of abuse and misogyny. Most people have fucked up lives. It can provide a good routine, culture, and purpose for some of them. It’s also incredibly taxing on the body in many ways. And means you can’t really have any life outside of firefighting. Source: I listened to an interview on the radio with a woman who used to be a firefighter and who had written a book

Edit: I believe it was this book: https://www.riverselby.com

[u/Humble_Initiative_90 → u/sillybilly8102]

I love that you qualified your view by citing a book you read - not enough people explain their positions and it can be too off the cuff. I would like to temper it by saying that this toxic culture is fed by the stress of the job and by not providing healthy outlets and its insularity from other walks of life, creating a bubble, and that manifests that cult like culture. Many times these people are overworked and struggle to process the sometimes horrific things they encounter (there's only so many times you can pick up pieces of a person that disassembled from a motorcycle accident) and it strengthens that walling off from other people. It causes divorces and loss of friends. You're right in saying it's very taxing on their bodies, and this effect can be seen throughout public service jobs that interact with the realities of society. There need to be more people in these jobs so they can maybe have time to decompress, balance out, seek therapy, etc and not work 12+ hours a day. Knowing the amount of police who work overtime and secondary jobs to make piles of money does a disservice to their lives and the public they're charged to serve. Source: working in and coming from a family (including my spouse and her family) of people in firefighting, law enforcement, government and military, social services, and healthcare.

[u/DingleDangleTangle → u/remenes1]

These are the kinds of bonds that men build in stuff like sports and the military. It just seems like the best way for us to build relationships with each other, we like doing intense stuff and working towards things together. Kinda sucks that after high school sports outside of the military there aren’t many opportunities to fill this void for most people.

[u/theHerbivore → u/Significant_Sun_4900]

That’s so awesome 

[u/Preeng → u/Significant_Sun_4900]

Gang can't try to call him a pussy for not going back to his old life when he runs into burning buildings in his new life.

[u/Rulanik → u/Significant_Sun_4900]

He just needed a better gang (the fire dept)

[u/jedstrailerpark → u/Rulanik]

You’re kind of joking, but that is why there’s probably such low recidivism with the program. Like job/income and everything aside, folks who get out lean on their old support system who, in a lot of cases, weren’t good influences. Having a built in group of friends and colleagues you can lean on within Cal Fire would go such a long way.

[u/Street_Roof_7915]

They earned it. If they are good enough to fight fires as prisoners they are good enough to be paid for it.

[u/arctic11z → u/Street_Roof_7915]

I always liked working with convict crews. They busted their ass constantly. A lot better than some of the contract crews I had the misfortune of being around.

[u/eyesayuhh → u/Street_Roof_7915]

They need to get paid the state minimum wage instead of the federal minimum wage. Before 2025 they'd get dollars a day. I don't like the state dabbling in labor camps.

[u/BlueMikeStu → u/eyesayuhh]

Honestly, the thirteenth amendment needs to be straight up repealed and replaced with "No slavery. Period."

[u/TheCricketHole → u/BlueMikeStu]

Exactly. Slavery was never truly abolished in the US.

[u/umpteenthrhyme → u/Street_Roof_7915]

They should be paid decently as prisoners too. It’s just 13th amendment-safe slavery otherwise.

[u/rocket_randall → u/umpteenthrhyme]

Not to be that guy, but technically they volunteer and screen for a spot on a crew. If they make it, they're not confined to a prison yard and they receive training which (formerly) may have opened a path to a career with the fire service. I think there was a CalFire miniseries that had an episode about the convict firefighters.

It's really interesting stuff, and the people who volunteer for it are serious about making a better life and they put in the work under some brutal environmental conditions. That the law is changing to formalize that path is a great thing for people who may just need that chance.

[u/taurean_jackal]

It’s what they deserve, for at the very least risking their lives

[u/whereismysideoffun → u/[deleted]]

Wildland firefighters were estimated to be at increased risk of lung cancer (8 to 43 percent) and cardiovascular disease (16 to 30 percent) mortality across all season lengths and career durations.

It's still a big risk and add in that they are being paid almost nothing.

[u/rizzyrogues]

Fucking a, uplifting news is so rare these days that this is the best news I've read all week.

Rehabilitate the criminals. Give them work experience. Create paths to successful careers for people who otherwise are wrongly looked down upon by society.

[u/Scrobbles62]

Fucking good. Now they should be fairly compensated while they’re fighting the fires, including hazard pay

[u/themostreasonableman → u/Scrobbles62]

I am a wildland firefighter for a corporate entity; I don't get dick for it save for my regular salary. No danger pay, that's for sure. We get some little crumbs of a lump sum payment twice per year, but it goes in with a regular salary payment so it barely moves the needle at all.

The work is fucking scary, genuinely risky, physically demanding, absolutely punishes your body and lungs and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

There's a certain breed of person who actually enjoys this type of work, and they tend to get next-level good at it. I hope there are some that find their calling here because lord knows the world is going to need all the help it can get on this front in the coming decades.

I don't know how much longer I can keep it up, personally. Ever since I had kids my instinct to run towards the very bowels of hell has waned somewhat. You almost NEED a deathwish to keep doing this shit year after year.

[u/BakuRetsuX]

I'm sure poverty is one of the largest reason for crimes. Give them a job they can live on. See how it changes people.

[u/adjavang → u/BakuRetsuX]

Poverty absolutely plays a huge part, as does inequality and a few other factors. This addresses several of those factors directly and providing prisoners with good employment opportunities after they've served their sentence is arguably the best way to lower recidivism.

[u/Enough_Efficiency178 → u/adjavang]

Makes one wonder how many might’ve been repeat offenders in this system before this change. As in, incarcerated firefighters that were released only to end up back in the program.

[u/Explorer_Entity → u/BakuRetsuX]

It is literally the largest cause of crime.

[u/NeuroPalooza]

I misunderstood this and was wondering how so many firefighters get arrested. The reality makes a lot more sense.

[u/ShillinTheVillain → u/NeuroPalooza]

Oh, I'm sorry officer, I didn't know it was a crime to be too sexy!

[u/ferchristssakestopit]

So, a prison is helping inmates reform, fucking novel.

[u/VladislavThePoker]

It's about friggin time. A prison smoke jumper crew saved my parents house from a wildfire. They all slid down a rope from a damn helicopter, packing tools of all kinds, and they saved my folks' place and like 3 other houses to boot. I've never seen anything like it. Afterwards we asked to thank them and were told we were not allowed to speak to them, which my family ignored. Everyine shouted their gratitude and then my uncle ran in the house and back out with an armload of ice cold cokes and started whipping them over the fence to the fire crew. These are wildfire professionals with elite training and VERY marketable skills. They deserve this.

[u/WpnsOfAssDestruction → u/VladislavThePoker]

This is interesting, because there aren’t any convict smoke jumper crews. Maybe a it was professional firefighters and then the convict crew hiked in and helped. There’s people from all sorts of places on big fires.

[u/Embarassed_Tackle]

I hope they get hired but California is addicted to these cheap firefighters and claims it cannot afford this many regular firefighters paid regular wages.

Even their wage of $7.25 is way higher than their other wage of $1 a day for active.

Also there's the question of hiring a felon for a state job; I don't know how that will work out but I assume an exception will be made on the background check?

The bill also creates potential tension between workforce goals and background‑check or fitness‑for‑duty requirements. Holding a certification and having hand‑crew experience does not eliminate statutory or policy-based disqualifiers for certain public positions; agencies will need to reconcile statutory hiring preference with other screening criteria (criminal history, security clearances, medical and fitness standards).

[u/whitelancer64 → u/Embarassed_Tackle]

Newsom recently increased the inmate pay from $1 per hour when actually out fighting fires, to $19

[u/BlueMikeStu → u/whitelancer64]

Good. Hope they get to keep it instead of their prisons stealing it with "fees". They shouldn't be risking their lives for a dollar an hour in the first place. That's cruel and unusual punishment.

[u/skeletoorr]

I knew a guy who did time for an armed burglary. He was 19, got into drugs. A buddy said the house was empty for the weekend so they went to rob it. He had a crowbar to open the door. The people were home. No one was hurt and there was no confrontation. Basically they scattered when they realized someone was home but the cops did find him and he still had the crowbar so he got in a lot more trouble. Anyways he served about 6 IIRC maybe 8. Now runs a huge business in town. You would never know he was in prison if he didn’t tell you. Super clean cut average joe.

While he deserved his punishment. It’s so sad that one stupid choice can derail your whole life and put you in a system that has no real desire to actually help rehabilitate you.

I don’t mind criminals being put to work for basic community needs. Like picking up trash. I think that’s a great way to help people see their community and care about it. But when you’re doing a huge public safety job. That goes beyond helping and connecting with your community. You are PROTECTING your community and you deserve proper pay and recognition. Any by proper pay, it should at least be the country minimum wage. They don’t need to be rolling in the cash but they have earned the right to make actual money.

Money for their books, their family, legal aid, whatever. But if you’re repaying your community and then going above and beyond to risk your life. You deserve to be recognized. Especially since the dudes on those teams had to earn their position. These are prisoners who have proven to the higher ups, that they can be trusted and relied on.

Ugh I could rant more but I’ve got to make dinner and honestly no body reading this cares.

[u/FlanLover9 → u/skeletoorr]

The worst part is many prison labor crews are "paid" but then those wages are lost to "fees" by the prison system, leaving them with pennies.

They'll say "look, we're paying them $15/hr!" and plaster that everywhere because wow, that's actually great! But then they're charging $14.95/hr for random shit that doesn't even make sense, but it's a way to keep you tied to the system rather than actually improving yourself and breaking the cycle.

This new CA system will hopefully be a good step in the right direction, and as you said, well deserved by those protecting their communities.

[u/Worthyness → u/FlanLover9]

They also couldn't be hired once they were out because they had criminal records, so the pipeline to get them a proper job after getting out basically didn't exist. And most places won't hire an ex-prisoner in general, so really the only place to go after that is back to crime

[u/RabbitSlayre → u/[deleted]]

Holy shit man. That is terrible...

[u/Grouchy_Cod_156]

I always thought it was insane that one could be qualified to fight fires while incarcerated and prohibited from doing it once out 

[u/ArgentineBeauty]

https://giphy.com/gifs/LIksRlOGrhBnqbo4LL

[u/rabbi420]

https://giphy.com/gifs/E2eITEYPIQ7EuiTLLm

[u/daveydat1]

You send prisoners to fight fires in the US?

[u/SD_TMI → u/daveydat1]

Yes.

I’ve met and spoke to groups multiple times as well as their overseers.

They tend to be low level non violent felons that tend to be people involved in drug offenses or just “doing stupid stuff” and got busted.

They’re low risk of running off and get to have to ask for this in exchange for cutting their total prison time.

I sat down with one crew that was by my parents home a few years ago as they ate their sandwiches. They were there to search out and stamp out any hot spots from the brush fire the day before and asked me about the area where a current fire was raging and they were slated to go to next.

One thing to mention
The crews are intentionally not from the local area. They move them to areas where they don’t know anyone and it reduces the chances that someone might get a bright idea and run off to a friends house.

Honestly I This is a this is a good plan for keeping them from reoffending.
We have need for firefighters in this state.

Anyway the crew let out a massive moan when I told them my description of steep hillsides and thick brush at least 5 feet from ground level in height for the area they were headed too as support / relief for the current fire that day.
The temps were in the mid 90 degree F range.
So it was going to be really hard work.

I asked their overseer if I could the guys a pizza or two as a way of saying thanks for helping to protect my fathers home and was told not too as they had their food already prepped and it throws things off if they don’t eat it.

But they all thanked me anyway.

[u/Blockhead47 → u/daveydat1]

The prisoner is volunteer firefighter. It’s a much sought after job from what I’ve read in the past.

For every day they work on a fire it knocks 2 days off their prison sentence.
With overtime, the most they could earn in one day is $174 which doesn’t seem like a lot, but it is by far the most a prisoner can earn in the state of California. An average prisoner worker earns something like less than a dollar an hour.

This is an interesting post:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Firefighting/comments/1i2f8gh/what_are_firefighters_opinions_on_incarcerated/

[u/PhilColeCurry → u/daveydat1]

Slavery is still legal in the United States for incarcerated people specifically.

[u/Comfortable_Eagle593 → u/daveydat1]

It’s a volunteer program as far as I’m aware.

[u/Cerebral-Parsley → u/daveydat1]

In the US South, some state prisons still use their prisoners to farm crops and livestock, or food processing. For little pay.

[u/ISmokeWayTooMuchWeed → u/Cerebral-Parsley]

A lot of states are zero pay. And a some of them, working isn’t optional. It’s a requirement.

[u/realparkingbrake → u/Cerebral-Parsley]

For little pay.

In California they are all volunteers, they get paid a daily wage plus a $7.25 hourly bonus when on the fire line, and they get time off their sentence (two days off for every day worked).

[u/seams → u/daveydat1]

Prisoners can legally be used as slaves, so they just shove em at all kinds of stuff.

[u/wormyg]

Great way to decrease crime and recidivism

[u/PhenomsServant]

If a convicted felon can be a president. Than a reformed prisoner absolutely has a right to be a firefighter. 

[u/zaphod869]

Thank you to the people who must have worked hard to make this possible

[u/jessie_monster]

Danny Trejo talks about his time with this team and said it was the first time in his life that he felt like a hero. People were grateful that they were there and treated them with respect.

[u/in_a_cloud]

With the shockingly high number of people we incarcerate in this country, I’m happy to see something that looks like actual rehabilitation and an effort to help them succeed after release.

[u/BrainLow6059]

How many people do they actually hire? If half of the fire fighters are prisoners, surely they aren't hiring many or that gap would shrink?

[u/whitelancer64 → u/BrainLow6059]

Very very few inmate firefighters are hired as firefighters after release. A criminal record essentially bars the way to getting EMT training that's required for firefighters.

This FINALLY changes that.

[u/BrainLow6059 → u/whitelancer64]

Ah gotcha, that's great. I was worried it was an exploitative carrot on a stick situation

[u/Frustrated9876 → u/BrainLow6059]

The running joke among law enforcement is that CalFire doesn’t have a budget. Meaning, if they want something, they can get it without concern for cost.

CalFire has over 12,000 employees.

[u/CapinCrunch85]

It’s about time

[u/notthatguypal6900]

Awesome, this is what rehabilitating is supposed to be about.

[u/herodesfalsk]

Making prison a punishing experience will make the inmates more likely to commit more crime once released. The focus needs to be restitution, education, therapy, so they emerge from prison more prepared to face the pressures of the society we have

[u/RabbitSlayre]

Good!!!

[u/Mikeoshi]

I hope the state at least feeds them more than a slice of white bread and spam or whatever before sending them into the flames.

[u/FuckThisShizzle]

Yeah but communism or woke or furries or some other shit.

[u/s0ciety_a5under]

Good. These guys are out there putting their lives on the line to keep people safe. Prison isn't just about a punishment. It needs to focus more on rehabilitation. These guys are doing the work, getting real life skills, and they need to be in great shape to do it. After their time is done, they deserve to be reintroduced into society. Not treated like a 3rd class citizen.

[u/TsuDhoNimh2]

Finally! Those crews are amazing.

[u/personman_76]

The fact it's taken decades of prisoners fighting fires for essentially free in order for them to get fair treatment is awful. At least it's being done, but how has it taken this long to think of putting skilled individuals into jobs that require skill?

[u/Luckydog12]

That’s awesome.

[u/witchspoon]

It’s about time really.

My hubby did several stints on wildland fire fighting basically side by side with these guys.

[u/TsuDhoNimh2 → u/witchspoon]

When the Perryville (AZ prison) crews show up, they get the same people cheering the buses as the other crews.

[u/witchspoon → u/TsuDhoNimh2]

They do. Ans they do the same jobs and the same trainings. But those certifications were not considered valid after their release. And they didn’t get paid fairly at all.

[u/DragonTat2]

This is fabulous news! They deserve it!

[u/TabaquiJackal]

GOOD. This should have happened a long time ago.

Not sure what firefighter makes six figures, though. They sure don't here in MO.

[u/UrMomThinksImCoo → u/TabaquiJackal]

In California, they absolutely do. Not base salary but with OT they make bank.

[u/adoodle83 → u/TabaquiJackal]

they sure do in California.

[u/Otto_Scratchansniff → u/TabaquiJackal]

See the thing about supply and demand… more fires require more firefighters. More fires mean more deaths, more loss, more of everything. So you pay the people willing to risk their lives to fight the more fires, more money.

[u/Saramela → u/TabaquiJackal]

Likely because annual forest fires aren’t an issue here in MO.

[u/RawrRRitchie → u/TabaquiJackal]

I'm no economics expert but I'm pretty sure the tax revenue generated in California is many many MANY times greater than Missouri.

Bigger tax revenue= bigger budget to pay the emergency services.

So I'm not surprised in the slightest fire fighters in Cali are making bank compared to those in Missouri

[u/Kinggambit90]

Now make the utility company that causes the fires responsible for rehabbing the habitats burned

[u/0xf5f]

hell yeah!

[u/itotally_CAN_even]

Good.

[u/Ijwbar]

This is what reform is supposed to look like

[u/dumbdude545]

Honestly. Good.

[u/antihuman420]

This took way too long to implement.

[u/jistresdidit]

they ain't getting any jobs , guarantee that. cal fire is full of nepotism

[u/gwig9]

About freaking time. Those guys literally go through hell. They absolutely deserve this.

[u/mdb92888]

I’m just curious how many incarcerated firefighters are there in California? Or is this a job they pick up while in prison?

[u/TsuDhoNimh2 → u/mdb92888]

It's a coveted job - they get trained, they travel, they meet other crews. Now they aren't blocked from that career.

I was in a small Arizona town during the Wallow fire - a monster - and the people in the town were delighted to see the crew from Perryville (an Arizona prison). They got the same welcome as any of the crews.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallow_Fire

https://lessons.wildfire.gov/incident/dude-fire-entrapment-fatalities-1990

Those Perryville Crewmembers lost on the Dude Fire were: Sandra Bachman, Joseph Chacon, Alex Contreras, James Denney, James Ellis, and Curtis Springfield.

[u/Rare-Adhesiveness522 → u/TsuDhoNimh2]

The community is so small, it's a great opportunity to make connections for other jobs, too.

[u/tiki-151 → u/mdb92888]

They get this as an option rather than sitting in a cell all day. It is a very popular option with great demand.

[u/Mysterious-Snow496 → u/mdb92888]

It's just one guy. He keeps getting fired.

[u/jackalopeDev → u/mdb92888]

They use incarcerated labor for their wildland firefighting. Its not people who were firefighters and then got arrested lol.

[u/Low_Show_6684 → u/mdb92888]

They’re just regular prisoners, they’re given this as an option of a job while they serve their time. It’s very cheap labor, essentially indentured servitude. 

[u/tiki-151 → u/Low_Show_6684]

I would disagree with that. It is optional. And it is a very popular program. And while it is noble of them to choose this, they are still in prison for crimes against others and all of us taxpayers have to pay for the cost of their incarceration. I don't believe they should be paid anything significant for this, at least until they repay the taxpayers for their "stay." As far as job preferences after they get out, I am absolutely for that. They did the work and learned the skill. If anything, they should have more programs like that for incarcerated, and even homeless people who get into public housing.

[u/Low_Show_6684 → u/tiki-151]

I am a wildland firefighter, it wasn’t my intention I’m just legally obligated with my job to be one. If I was not getting paid overtime for what I was doing I wouldn’t do assignments or anymore than I had to. I have coworkers who are like this because wildland sucks that fucking much.

There’s a reason that wildland is offered as an option and not regular structural firefighting. It’s attractive because it gets you out, it gives you some valuable skills.

It’s also incredibly dangerous. There is little to no respiratory PPE. Your body deteriorates fast. It can and will eat people who are not entirely aware of what they’re getting into, even people who have an idea but have never experienced the demands of being handcrew. 

And yes, they’re cheap and that’s why they’re great for the program because fire is fucking expensive. Everybody works OT, 12-16 hours is common for 14-28 days straight. You eat, sleep, then do it again. Because of that OT I’m willing to once or twice a season go out of my state to help. I do not envy those prisoners, I pity them. 

[u/DrMusic97]

People want to have purpose in life.

People resort to crime when they can’t find it.

Abandoning prisoners on the street is guaranteed to result in high recidivism rates. However, if you teach them valuable skills, and help place them into jobs with good benefits, then they will be more likely to reintegrate into society.

I see evidence of this scenario, everyday, in the trades. It should never be about what someone has done, but more about what they are capable of accomplishing.

“Teach a man to fish, and he will never go hungry.”

[u/MonsierGeralt]

God I hope we get this in Oregon too. Sever lack of woodland fire fighters

[u/Bbundaegi]

I’m going to wait for all the people that insist hiring based on merit only but this is bad.

[u/stayathmdad]

I've got a cousin who did this in Cali. He been fighting fires for quite a few years.

He finally got out and now he has a job, and he likes it.

[u/Cookiewaffle95]

That’s great it’s not like there’s going to be less wildfires any time soon lolol

[u/Crustybionicle]

I think these sorts of folks need to be recognized, there are people in those jail cells that find themselves back in because theyve lost all hope. The idea that peoples outcomes and path can and do change doesnt exist for a lot of them.

Society could really benefit from exposing the prison system to more of these types of programs. The prisons, the community, and inmates could all benefit from seeing a path to a better outcome.

[u/Cujo22]

Awesome. 

• massachusetts firefighter

[u/Evening_Mushroom_331]

Tough job. Takes years off your life. But definitely worth it over being in prison.

[u/PiggyBear6667]

About damn time. They go through intense training and risk their lives, if this isn’t the path toward being reformed, I don’t know what is.

[u/Master_Slide7023]

Good.

[u/DgingaNinga]

About time

[u/ArtzeyFartzey]

It's about dam time!

[u/Lopsided-Ad-3869]

FUCKING FINALLY

[u/brokenmcnugget]

literally the least we could do. make a state wide professional fire service full of people who are known to do the job.

[u/RecentScarcity2389]

And they end up doing more for the people of California than the people mad about California doing this.

[u/Wusiji_Doctor]

So uplifting! <3 We are keeping the slaves, but maybe they can get a job doing the thing they were doing while enslaved if they make it out alive :)

Anyway remember when the people of California voted overwhelmingly to accelerate the prison slave labor wildfire program in a 2024 ballot measure?

[u/Awkward_Pangolin3254]

This is the kind of thing that prisons should have been doing the whole time. Amazing.

[u/istapledmytongue]

Sounds like a good idea. Actually trying to rehabilitate people vs just making them felons the rest of their lives with no other options.

[u/Independent-Mouse333]

This is long overdue. And great news, just think, experienced workers who know what to do and what not to do. What a waste it has been up to now.

[u/hopopo]

This is great, because up until now, they were trained and fighting fires but once they come out it was illegal for them to become firefighters.

Ear Hustle did a whole episode about them, and it is well worth listening: https://www.earhustlesq.com/episodes/2020/11/25/crewno7

[u/porican]

finally

[u/darknesswascheap]

Well, it’s about time! What an excellent idea.

[u/YesterShill]

Win win.

[u/niceabear]

I think this is an amazing idea for so many reasons. There is such a sense of comradery with firefighters in these emergency situations and this would give them such a sense of community and belonging along with the job security.

[u/Rare-Adhesiveness522]

...it's insane that this wasn't even a thing before??!! Wildland firefighters make damn good money!

Not sure they could get a job with USFS due to their record tho, which sucks

[u/GrayLightGo]

The deserve nothing less!

[u/karmaKate6]

Fantastic. This is what prison reform should look like

[u/kalventure]

About time! This is a much needed change

[u/sumeriandisputations]

I want to know what, if any organizations or entities are against this.

[u/CharcoalGreyWolf → u/sumeriandisputations]

The one entity I could think of is a firefighting union that is composed of firefighters already on the outside.

This really depends though on the ratio of open positions to unemployed firefighters. Of there’s plenty of open spots, I don’t think they’d kick up a fuss.

[u/SmartWonderWoman]

Good news!!!

[u/Satinsbestfriend]

Wait...
That TV show isnt completely fictional ?
Fire County (country?) i think its called

[u/PeakProfessional9517]

I worked with con crews quite a bit when I was with the Forest Service. They were usually the most upbeat guys at fire camp.

[u/Emergency-Income-889]

Did someone work out it's more cost effective to have productive members of society rather than 'free' prison labour?

[u/nopalitzin]

Wow, going to prison now is like college! Just kidding, USA's judiciary system is fucked up.

[u/NewInformation3753]

Hope is powerful

[u/The-Grreat-Catsby]

I didn’t know there was such a thing.

[u/kimchiman85]

Great!

Prison shouldn’t just be a place to keep criminals. It should focus on rehabilitation and allowing prisoners to reenter society as changed people.

[u/eastcoastseahag]

Seems pretty overdue but ok.

[u/Leozilla]

Good, this is what is needed

[u/Tasty-Life4526]

Good

[u/PreviousAd547]

Jon Stewart had a guy on TDS last year that had fought wildfire for years. He was out of prison and was trying to get it changed to this. Stewart really likes to help firefighters.

[u/Skin4theWin]

This is fantastic news! Those people save fucking lives and we are thankful for them and all of calfire!

[u/allnamestaken1968]

Finally. About time

[u/Old_Assistant4187]

Who's gonna hire them if the state keeps using incarcerated people's as firefighters?

[u/g_d_david]

That is amazing! Wow, finally good news

[u/DSaintly23]

So if I legitimately want to be a firefighter in California and can’t get appointed to a unit then I’m better off committing a crime in order to be selected?