r/classicwow • u/UkSteamDeckFan • 4d ago
Forever Beta Feedback Suggestion: weather should be the same on EVERY layer
Layering can be incredibly immersion breaking but I think some things can be done to help.
Earlier today, there was a massive storm in The Barrens, which looked amazing, but most people in ‘general chat’ couldn’t see it and were asking for invites to the ‘rain layer’.
Surely weather is one thing that can be persistent across ALL layers?!?!
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u/HubrisOfApollo 4d ago
Same thing happened to me, I had just cleared the WC with a group and came out to a lovely rainstorm but when the group disbanded the storm disappeared. It was kinda sad
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u/splatmasta99 3d ago
It's also so odd to me they're preaching the "familiar faces" but the party disbands and the faces you spent a dungeon with vanish into thin air for some randoms. Why not just keep the party in the same layer until you leave zone or phase off?
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u/Mclurkerrson 4d ago
I’ve only experienced the new weather effects for a cumulative 30 seconds despite playing for hours, because I keep getting layered. It sucks because I LOVE the rain and weather effects.
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u/BarettaRocks 4d ago
I for one wish I could just toggle rain on permanently and go about my way.
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u/killerhmd 4d ago
Someone should create the Add-on "World of Raincraft".
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u/ShadyInternetGuy 4d ago
So many games need this feature. I'm just... I live in a desert, okay, let me live the fantasy of living in a place where it always rains, please?
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u/Lokja 4d ago
Layers will be the bane of forever unless they do something about them
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u/Cheesedude666 4d ago
Yep. Layers are terrible, and each zone is it's own instance. The whole world is patched together like an abomination. Good luck with this "main character"
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u/Clit_Eastwhat 4d ago
Definitely.
I mean... The weather doesn’t have any gameplay advantages or disadvantages whatsoever. So there’s really nothing against it.
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u/Eecka 4d ago
Only thing I can think of if they have plans to have certain things that can change the weather. Like complete a quest or something and the weather changes, it’d make sense it happens only on the layer it’s completed on rather than all of them.
Also it’d be cool if they eventually did add some minor mechanical effects to the weather. Even if they did, it’d make even more sense to share the weather between layers rather than having people look for the layer with the effect they want
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u/themoosh 4d ago
I don't think we want phasing in forever.
A persistent world should be persistent and universal. I can live with layers instead of servers because I get why it's necessary but phasing is a bridge too far.
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u/Eecka 4d ago
I don’t think I mentioned anything related to phasing, I certainly didn’t mean to imply anything of the sort
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u/tear_atheri 3d ago
what you suggested is basically phasing. a different 'phase' of the world exists during weather events. phasing has usually been used for quest progress / world events, but this is another suggested use of it
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u/Eecka 3d ago
Anything that happens on any one layer only happens on any one layer. If I and a few others players are doing a group quest, that's going on on the layer that we happen to be on. What I suggested is that if we had something like that imaginary group quest having a zone-wide weather effect that happens when the boss of the group quest is killed, that weather change would only happen on that specific layer.
That is not phasing, that's just consistent with the way layers already work.
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u/looking4myclASSm8s 4d ago
You want them to add mechanics to weather so they’re forced to also sync layers?
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u/Kabaal 4d ago
Global Layering is destroying the environment.
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u/Cheesedude666 4d ago
World of Layercraft. I hate it, and if they are trying to sell off Azeroth as their "main character" they got to do something about it.
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u/Kabaal 4d ago
They won’t. They’re in love with megaservers garbage. And that means layers forever. It’s as anti-vanilla as anything I can think of.
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u/gromulint 3d ago
It's by far the biggest reason I will likely bounce off WoWF sadly. It's pure gibberish and I don't see a "familiar faces" feature rescuing it.
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u/ICantBelieveItsNotEC 4d ago
Yeah, I completely agree. Personally, I think weather should be derived from server time, which would keep it consistent across every layer within a region. They could even implement some kind of weather forecasting system, so you can see what the weather will be in each zone over the next, say, 24 hours.
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u/Calm_Connection_9127 4d ago
layering should be as subtle and seamless as possible, having different weather is just jarring as fuck and reminds you that you are playing a game and not immersed in a world
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u/Macloud32 4d ago
Come on man…how “immersed” can you be if the weather changing in a game takes you out of it?
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u/TheRealHaxxo 4d ago
How very little immersed do you usually are to not give a fuck about something as jarring as the game teleporting you to an alternate dimension where it suddenly is sunny instead of a massive dark storm???
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u/Macloud32 4d ago
Because it’s a game? I log in knowing it’s a game and that the game has layers, and that the weather being sunny or rainy within 30 seconds doesn’t take away from the gameplay.
If anything, it reminds me of what I grew up with. That’s immersion aplenty.
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u/DarkPrincessEcsy 4d ago
If I was hanging out somewhere in the world just listening to the rain at a camp, and a friend invited me so he could fine the camp I'm at for roleplay, and that took me to a layer without rain? I would genuinely be upset.
I know it's just rain to a lot of people, but I know I'm not alone in it calming me or spiking me full of dopamine
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u/Loyalist_Pig 4d ago
It almost seems harder to make it different on every layer O.o
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u/KageKoch 4d ago
It's really not when you think about it: each layer is a different instance, with its own mobs, objects (like plants, minerals), players and also weather.
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u/SkipX 4d ago
It depends on how you generate the randomness of the weather. If you take the time as the only input parameter then it's automatically synced on all layers.
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u/jazwch01 4d ago
Seems relatively "Easy" to implement, each day the weather is determined in X amount of minute segments. Say 15 for simplicity. So prior to the day starting all the layers know what the weather will be in each zone, every 15 minutes and sync to that. But have the weather determined randomly each day so that way you dont go to a zone at 3pm server because thats the rainy time.
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u/SkipX 3d ago
It's even more simple than that. Every game uses some kind of noise map sampeling to create randomness. You can create that noise map once and sample it over time. If there is one unchanging noisemap that every layer samples with the current time then everything will be synced without daily preparations.
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u/vegost 4d ago
«Inv to sun layer»
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u/Cheesedude666 4d ago
It was raining like crazy outside Stormwind yesterday it was literaly so annoying. I'd want an invite to sun layer all the time
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u/Andvari_Nidavellir 4d ago
Agreed. If we can’t have a persistent world there should at least be put a lot of effort into creating the illusion of one.
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u/Moomootv 4d ago
I just dont even understand why layering in its current version in the first place. They had already had cross realm merging and then later cross realm phasing. This one mega server with phasing seems like the worst idea to come up with.
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u/SneakyBadAss 4d ago edited 4d ago
Layered weather doesn't make sense.
Azeroth should be a living world. How could it be a living world if the weather isn't the same across the clients? How can plants grow in one layer if there's no rain for 30 days, and in another you can start the Maelstrom questline...
I understand each region having different time zones, but weather should be consistent across the "realm", so when there's downpour in Goldshire at 1 PM CET, there's also downpour in Goldshire at 2 AM PT.
Are layers just alternative realities, then?
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u/Cheesedude666 4d ago
If you have layers in your game forget about immersion. It's a multiverse simulator, and other players are nothing more ghosts. That's just how it is, and somehow it's been normalized and tolerated because it solves "issues". Even timezones is fucked up. You swap into another layer and suddenly its night or daytime swapped? That's not acceptable. It's also not acceptable having the entire population of players around you swapped in and out.
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u/SneakyBadAss 4d ago
If you watched their recent podcast, they mentioned layering in the context of someone trying to kill someone on the edge of elwyn forest and duskwood as he kept layering in and out and said they are fixing it, so they are certainly aware of layering issues.
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u/Cheesedude666 4d ago
Yeah I listened to that podcast. And while it's great that they're going to try and make it better, it doesn't change the fact layering is dividing the world. Each time you group with someone out of your layer, one of you have to leave your layer. There is no other way about it. Layers will form the world and be a huge part of how we perceive Azeroth. Their "main character" suffers from heavy schizophrenia. And we're even forced out of instances to participate more in this nonsense...
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u/Quakestorm 4d ago
It should be synced. But if it's not synced, then the opportunities that that presents should be utilized. E.g., there could be a shaman item or spell that requires like 100 of them working together to change the weather in a zone.
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u/rbtgoodson 4d ago edited 3d ago
Given that it's a randomized feature (presumably), I'm not sure how they would even handle that suggestion.
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u/zzzornbringer 3d ago
through programming.
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u/rbtgoodson 3d ago
a randomized feature
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u/zzzornbringer 3d ago edited 3d ago
i mean no offense, but that statement shows me that you don't know much about programming.
in short, blizzard has the source code for the game, both client and server. they can change anything they want.
in layman's terms, they can have a global variable, that is still random mind you, but it's global and would apply to, in that case, all the layers. so, whenever a new layer needs to be created, the variable can just be read and the time of day will be set accordingly. you could also use inheritance and just give the "time of day" value of an active layer to a newly created layer. so the time of day is the same everytime a new layer gets created.
see, these are just examples. with programming, there's lots of different solutions to a single problem. all you need is the source code which blizzard owns.
(i used time of day as an example as i think it's easier to understand. you can have the same concept apply to weather or anything else.)
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u/rbtgoodson 3d ago
Awesome! So, given that Blizzard has unlimited resources, twenty years of experience with the issue in question, controls the source code for the game on both the client and server, and can change anything they want about the game at any point in time, this should be a relatively easy request to implement. When can we expect its release?
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u/Old-Plate684 4d ago
I have no idea about their architecture, but I imagine storing a weather state zone-wide shouldn’t be that difficult.
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u/repsejnworb 3d ago
yes this is an impossible task and not in anyway possible to have a synced state between layers.
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u/MarcAbaddon 3d ago
How would that be an impossible task, lol? You need just need a weather controller on the central node telling the layers what weather it is right now.
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u/sneakpeakspeak 4d ago
Why would it be hard to share the same rng across every layer? Seems really straight forward and not hard. Barrens at this hour has rolled rain so barrens in all layers has rain. Seems easy?
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u/iphonesoccer420 4d ago
Yeah seems obvious idk why it wouldn’t be. If they can figure this layering thing out. Which they have been doing good they will strike gold
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u/bcalicoredfs 4d ago
This would never happen but I wish they had a setting for like what level weather you want to experience and each layer is once of those settings like those that want to play on sunny day setting get layer 1, all the way to layer 6 of gloomy stormy etc layer and i guess if one layer is too full you bleed them over to the next nearest layer or something
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u/CardiologistOwn6698 4d ago
I used to dualbox and having it be dark and rainy on one screen and bright and sunny on the other was immersion breaking.
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u/CreamdedCorns 4d ago
It's been raining in goldshire for like 3 days.. and monsoon rain. Not sure how the gnomes and kobolds are coping.
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u/Boge42 3d ago
They just need to ditch the layers. It's just a dumb idea.
Another thing people aren't considering is the time difference with their time zone. Someone on the east coast of the US might end up being 3 hours behind the server time. Maybe that's something they don't want. But they're not getting an option to choose any of that? That's not cool.
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u/Adventurous-Sail-354 3d ago
Dude I’ll be so sad if I’m enjoying atmospheric weather then I get layer swapped and it’s gone
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u/Tavron 3d ago
I'm getting quite worried about the layer system. At first it seemed cool when they talked about it during the panels and on a theoretical level it does.
But on the other side it has a lot of issues and on the recent podcast, Aggrend mentioned layering and how "it just works" (paraphrasing). If they really are of that mindset that doesn't spell well.
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u/arthurlecat 3d ago
I am not in beta but it seems Blizz has a lot of things to adjust about layers.
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u/MyNameIsUggggh 3d ago
I've hated layering since I first experienced it in TBC classic. For all the great work they have done building immersion in Forever, it seems very superficial with the current implementation of layering. I'm sure the whole process of merging servers as they decline is a pain in the ass, but there has got to be a better way.
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u/MaxtheGrape 12m ago
Layers really seem to be a constant issue cropping up.
It’s super weird seeing players fade in and out as I’m out in the world.
Makes me feel like my character needs to take medication.
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u/Beargrim 4d ago
i think weather should be client side. so that its actually day when its day in my timezone aswell regardless of which layer im on.
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u/KowardlyMan 4d ago
It can't, there are mobs that go out only at night.
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u/twoducksinatub 4d ago
There are?
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u/frogunderarock 4d ago
the zombies in westfall graveyards only spawn at night iirc, also the village around SFK switches from humans to worgen at night.
found this thread with some other examples like the rams in Dun Morogh too: https://www.reddit.com/r/hiddenwow/comments/178b73v/what_daynight_timecycle_based_events_do_you_know/
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u/Selesnija 4d ago
wtf I never knew about Westfall zombies in 21 years
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u/frogunderarock 4d ago
there's even a rare, Leprithus! has some nice drops and takes over Vultros job of scaring the crap out of low levels at night lol
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u/remakeprox 4d ago
Daytime is already linked to the regions timezone, its just unfortunate the beta is US-centered so timezones don’t align
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u/Icy-Nothing-189 4d ago
Ehh I don't think so. That will also allow too much client side manipulation so people will probably have add-ons or scripts to change their weather at will (and the sweats will obviously always have the most clearest weather active)
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u/Tranne 4d ago
Day/night cicle should be a bit faster than real life time, that way people who always plays on the same time of day can experience day and night on different days.
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u/Icy-Nothing-189 4d ago
Idk about that. I think peak immersion would be that if you play every morning at 9am, the game is also morning for you. That way the one day you do log in at night, the game will be night too and it will feel immersive.
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u/HammerofBonking 4d ago
I fully 100% disagree. It limits you from seeing the world in different lighting, and makes the world feel more static.
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u/slashcuddle 3d ago
I like this the best. I used to wait till night to do my Shimmering Flats quests
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u/HammerofBonking 4d ago
I've been saying this for years. Make it 6 hour cycles or something so people can appreciate the lighting at different times, and it makes in-game time time of day events more accessible (zombies in Westfall, etc). It also makes the world feel more dynamic.
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u/sassyhalforc 3d ago
making them longer would probably feel more immersive and you'd still get the same effect but the day night cycle is probably so deep in the code that changing it would affect a bunch of different unintended things so it will most likely never happen.
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u/Kabaal 4d ago
It’s annoying that with megaservers, there’s no option for your time zone server. Being on the east coast and not having an east coast server means higher ping. And it means the day/night cycle will always be off. On my schedule I’d never see the night.
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u/tehbzshadow 4d ago
We anyway have separate regions. US can't play with EU for example. Maybe we will still have different timezones.
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u/Kabaal 4d ago
There’s 1 server for pvp, 1 for rp, and 1 for pve. Would be better if there was one west coast and one east coast for each, but there isn’t. And since Blizz is in California, the east coast players just kinda get screwed.
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u/tehbzshadow 4d ago
No, when game go release we will have separate regions as before. So 1 server pvp America, 1 PvE America, 1 RP America, 1 Hardcore (later) America. 1 PvP EU, 1 PvE EU etc.
It's realm-less, not region-less xD
https://youtu.be/i5aZ_-9WZaM?si=e2mEvIRDx2pz_KQt&t=840
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/realmless-doesmt-mean-regionless-confirmed-by-gm/2351688
https://x.com/BlizzardCSEU_EN/status/20998524547580767482
u/Kabaal 4d ago
I mean….I literally said that.
But even with that there’s going to be way more players at launch. It’s going to be a disaster. People might not be able to play for days. Remember Classic’s launch? That had like…20 servers per region? Using layers (though not as many as they can make now). And they still had to keep adding servers.
I’m telling you. They’re gonna have to add more servers or people will be waiting days to play. And that’s ridiculous.
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u/tehbzshadow 4d ago edited 4d ago
I mean….I literally said that.
USA has 3 hours difference top (excluding Hawaii and Alaska), while EU has 5 hours difference, Russia has 10 hours difference. I see no problems at all in those 3 hours diff (as non-US player). It would be a problem if servers were world-wide.
Do you have separate time zones for each server in US in non-forever? Because in EU there are all the same, so i was confused about initial statement.
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u/UniversalFarrago 4d ago
apparently a lot more servers are coming with launch, they’re limited at the moment only for beta. I still don’t understand how time zones will work without realms, though. I don’t like the idea that it’s based off geolocation. I find it breaks immersion if I don’t know if the dude I’m playing with is fully in night or whatever.
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u/Kabaal 4d ago
Sadly, untrue. Launch has 3 servers: PvP, pve, and rp. That’s it. Hardcore later.
That’s per region. So one set for America. One for Europe.
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u/UniversalFarrago 4d ago
Sorry, I misspoke.
What I meant are that more data centers are coming for each zone, which are functionally servers. Just not realms.
So if you’re in Germany, you’ll layer into a German data center/server when you log into your chosen ruleset.
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u/Kabaal 4d ago
Can’t speak for Europe. But America will all be pacific.
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u/UniversalFarrago 4d ago
This is one of many reasons why I think going realmless was a mistake. But I digress.
I like having the sun set outside as well as in-game. A 2 hour delay isn’t much, but you can still feel it, you know?
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u/Kabaal 4d ago
Agree 100%. And going realmless is a huge mistake. I’ve made threads and many posts about it. But it is what it is.
Launch is going to be a disaster the likes of which we’ve never seen….and that’s saying something. Blizz better be prepared to spin up hundreds of layers. But they can’t handle that. There’s going to be a 10k+ queue. Maybe 20k. Maybe more. Maybe a lot more.
But megaservers are great!
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u/UniversalFarrago 4d ago
The queue peaked at 220k for beta launch, with a 45 min wait at those numbers. We shall see how many queue for actual launch.
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u/Few-Emergency-3791 4d ago
I’ll one up you here you could just make weather a toggle so you can always have weather.
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u/Lazylion2 4d ago
Lmao hot take but i hate these weather effects and change layers to avoid it
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u/UniversalFarrago 4d ago
They’re too dark, but not in a fun or immersive way. Artificially dark. They need to fix them, because I love the idea of weather effects, just not the execution.
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u/Numerous-Material-50 4d ago
Forever is going realmless... meaning there is no more NA EU OCEANIA servers, just PvP, PvE, RP. So i assume layers will act as servers? I dont know how it all works but if you are in EU and im in NA and we both choose PvP, then we are in together. Thats my limit to my current understanding
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u/MOBT_ 4d ago
NA and EU will still have separate servers
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u/Numerous-Material-50 4d ago
Oh okay, thank you 🙂 I need to get myself more updated
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u/awatermelonharvester 4d ago
It is like that currently for the beta, but once game launches then there will be NA, EU, Oceania
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u/Misaki-Hayashi 4d ago
This is incorrect, its realmless but not regionless. There will still be an EU, OCE, USe, USw, and CN regions but the servers in those are all merged into one.
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u/Lenoxx97 4d ago
Why are people making up stuff if they have no idea what they are talking about? Baffling
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4d ago
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u/GeraldFisher 4d ago
what parallel dimensions? their are none in the game related to sharding nor in real life
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4d ago
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u/Dr-Assbeard 4d ago
No interpretation of the wave function never collapsing would lead to travel between different locally colapsable wavefunctions.
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4d ago
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u/Dr-Assbeard 4d ago
What theories?
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4d ago
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u/Dr-Assbeard 4d ago
What part of that theory would allow traveling from world to world?
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4d ago
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u/Dr-Assbeard 4d ago
I get its a joke, but why bring actual theories up that isnt relevant? Or was that also just a bad joke?
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u/GeraldFisher 4d ago
yes i know and what does that have to with zone layering? is it a canon event that they are dimensions?
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u/IcyCucumber4350 4d ago
Yeah that’d be cool I was constantly hopping between sunny and foggy Mulgore during my leveling it was super weird