Forever Beta Feedback
Blizzard just gave Arms Warriors 31-talent points capstone ability Mortal Strike to a Hunter PET.
Now a Hunter's pet gets it. For free. No 31 talent points. No commitment. Just a mortal strike ability on a 6 second cooldown that a beast handles while the Hunter stands 30 yards away plinking arrows.
Warriors are apparently starving for resources to actually use their kit, and now the one signature tool that made warriors unique in PVP is being handed to a pet class as a bonus feature.
What a great idea. Warriors' problem is that they won't be able to use mortal strike and bloodthirst on cd? Just make the cooldowns longer. Modern problems require modern solutions.
MS is a wild ability to give to a hunter pet, it's too strong for such a low opportunity cost application method.
Honestly giving MS to some other melee would be fine, where they need to commit in order to apply it. That might relieve design pressure on arms warriors and actually let them play the game too.
Wound poison for rogues maybe. I agree that the risk for a warrior and any other melee to apply this debuff is gettin in the middle of a bunch of enemies, a hunter just sends the pet with 0 repercussions aside form maybe the pet dying or getting sleept.
At least for level 20 its straight up not even playable, compared to just punching things with a staff/2h axe or 45% reduced shock cost + 5% global crit in the enhance tree.
Even with like 80 nature spell power and a point into the cast damage reduction your damage is just BAD and heavily carried by fire nova.
For level 60, there really still needs to be a total Elemental Tree overhaul or its going to be DoA, regardless of the state of base spell damage on CL and the TBC reduced spell damage Coef.
Can't even fully test elemental at 30 in the beta anyway, since Chain Lightning is unlocked at 32, and LB is a "stale" mid 20's rank.
Enhance at 30 on the other hand looks great. Windfury weapon at 30 and storm strike from talents mid 20's.
Viper sting is already a good healer counter, I think this is approaching “give every class every toolkit because we need to be balanced” in an unhealthy way.
They're trying to make hunter pet variety a thing because it wasn't in the past. They'll definitely adjust the abilities on them over time so they don't eclipse other classes in usefulness.
Pet variety has been a thing (at least for pvp) since wotlk and including up to retail version. It’s really just classic and tbc that pets are extremely one note.
BM hunters unlocking stronger pet abilities would be really cool. Like this could be 25% ms baseline, 50% with some significant amount of points in BM.
So here is my fix for the warrior, I suggest to make it become a pet in group/raid content. He would not take a raid slot but a player's pet slot instead. At this point it's the only way to make them viable again.
To keep them happy you can feed them with some crappy piece of loot here and there no real class wants. They have the advantage to be able to wear almost any piece of loot.
Would be a relative nerf to the hunter and we would need as many warriors as in vanilla...
Why are you blaming zirene? He makes items. Ask him on Twitter about anything else and he'll directly tell you that it wasn't his call. Hunter was in fact insanely overpowered in just about every phase of sod but let's not blame the innocent.
Those were dark days. I remember taking out a squad of 4 horde solo on my hunter with the pre-nerf scorpion pet that had an acid attack that stacked to 5 that did massive damage
Anyone? It was added to their aimed shot in the very next expansion. This is a far less dependable way of applying the debuff, which fits Classic very well. A strong, but not mandatory, debuff with easy counterplay, that's great game design.
I'll say, I do believe they'll remove MS from pets and correct Warriors. But...
Aggrend and his team has shown time and time again that they do indeed have these biases when it comes to their class tuning. In Wrath when we had seen very few class changes at that point in classic Ret Paladins and Hunters received significant changes. In SoD Hunters were absolutely broken in multiple phases, Ret was also extremely good and you could argue benefited from SoD more than any other class...similar to Warcraft Forever so far.
Not trying to whine, this is just how Aggrend's team has handled class balancing in pretty much every version they've been allowed to touch. They desperately need different/more people who can advocate for certain classes as they certainly have people to advocate for Hunter and Paladin.
True. Maybe the Croc mortal strike should be a cleansable version and that would be better for classic theming. I think it's cool to have pet abilities like this, but being weaker than mortal strike in some way is appropriate
Thank God honestly. This is exactly what we needed from Forever, more class homogenization. I mean its unfair that only warriors rogues and hunters have a MS-like effect now so probably need to give it to the other dps classes as well. Don't worry boys I'm sure there isn't anything to be concerned about with this dev philosophy.
The first time I ever saw a Hunter pet set off a raid wide bloodlust I knew the WoW devs had officially lost their way haha. This not quite there obviously but it's really going down the same path.
This per most likely will still not be used in pvp. The other new pet abilities are disarm and a 5 second root from birds and spiders. Those are way better for Hunter
It's definitely overtuned, even if you compare to other Hunter pet abilities. It'll most likely be nerfed (but feedback to remind them of this is of course good).
You know there is some retail devs working on Forever with all these clueless updates.
Just look at the stage of the rogues and black market.... my gaaaaaaaawd
They are all retail devs. Classic had development but not design development. No one who developed design stuff in 2000-2008 is still there in any worthwhile capacity.
Crock was historically the worst pet you could get. They had lowest damage coefficient, health and armor were both median values, and they could only train bite.
This kind of help isnt unwarranted.
This sub has taught me one very important lesson over the last week. If anyone gets ANYTHING warriors will be in shambles clutching their pearls.
I love how they expect Enhancement Shaman to just go around slinging instant cast Lightning Bolts at a (probable) rate of one bolt every 20+ seconds, with each bolt hitting the enemy as hard as a wet noodle. But don't worry, Blizzard will SURELY rework Shaman by the time the beta ends.
How does it measure out against other hunter pet abilities? You should know hunter pet abilities are balanced against the opportunity cost of not picking a different pet...
thisll be a very hot take but we wont be seeing crocolisks in pvp. It doesnt have a dash ability and is easily focused down. And hunters have never really had a problem with healers in a 1v1 situation.
At least for me the pet ill be running for PvP is a hawk crab or hyena for the disarm and movement penalty now that is some power
Don’t worry aggrend now just give a class battle shout and we won’t have to bring anymore warriors to a raid now that we are nerfing rage gen and giving other classes their unique utility
If only there were some kind of beta or such where they could test things before they put them out in the real game. Hate that I must fight this in my released game tomorrow...
Certain pets also get a sunder armor, a swipe, a bleed, hamstring, a web. And probably more. Each family of beast seems to have all received new stuff.
Let's be honest hunter receive MS like effect since tbc (new aim shot) and remain having it as a pet skill in retail nowadays, so I won't say healing suppression on hunter is insane or impossible. Yet the 50% supression on 60 is definitely overtuned, I would say nerf that to 25% would be healthy.
Hunters are already extremely strong in BG-style PvP before this though. And this is on top of significant other buffs to hunters and nerfs to warriors.
I think any level of this could be tuned to be reasonable in PvP, but that has to be coupled with losses elsewhere. You can't just buff them across the board AND add one of the most impactful pvp abilities in the game on a whim.
Most of the comments are about BG’s, but what would be the best pet right now for open world PvP or 1v1’s? Is it also something crazy like the Ms Croc?
Hunters stack agi so likely what, 20% base dodge on top of mail armour? They have then put an additional 8% dodge in monkey on the tree, for 16% total. Also buffing the parry to 10%, which would be 15% including base chance.
20+16+15=51% avoidance with very little cost.
Good lord that is absurd compared to what tanks have to invest in to get to that level of avoidance. How is any melee going to actually go toe to toe against a surv hunter or even a BM/Surv dip?
They won't. and neither will most other classes. Hunter looks mighty busted ATM lol. Might roll one for my first toon. Melee hunter with a croc and 50% Eva sounds juicy af.
Warriors are just completely unnecessary in BGs now too. Mortal Strike was their most important tool to target threats and let the team burst them down. Why bother having a warrior when a hunter can bring this toolkit for free. Hopefully this is removed or nerfed to work only in PVE.
One most important ability that only a warrior could bring to the table in pvp. Having it on a hunter pet at no drastic cost to talents, long CD or hunter resource is ridiculous.
i mean yes actually lmao, hunters can now use traps in combat, speccing into survival makes those traps root targets too. the only thing war has going for it rn is gap closing lmao
It should also be nerfed to 25%, It's our 31 point capstone ability, no class should ever receive another classes 31 point capstone ability, let alone a pet, and a pet abilityshould never be as strong as a players ability.
Warriors are just given the rogue ability to disarm without spending any talent points or the need to parry 😱 , rogues have the capstone arms talent since lvl 1 😱
It's our 31 point capstone ability, no class should ever receive another classes 31 point capstone ability, let alone a pet, and a pet abilityshould never be as strong as a players ability.
Can you let us have anything? Warriors get shafted for one week and they lose their minds. Warrior has the largest care bear population you are going to be fine. Blizzard won't upset the class everybody plays.
Down vote me all you want weirdo warriors. Your class has been taken care of for 20 years, one week with rage issues and you fall apart lmao
Rogues also have wounding so it wasnt fully unique. Although i agree hunter is now just going to replace arms warrior because ret paladin or ench shaman might be better to be your frontline while hunter can just provide MS.
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u/TimelessNY 4d ago
Don't worry it will be nerfed when I reach 60 on my hunter