r/classicwow • u/DepthChorge • 2d ago
Forever Beta Feedback Blizzard, you've got a chance to birth a legend
Streamer gold buyers this, warrior rage gen that...
Blizzard, just wipe the servers when you up the cap to 30. You need more data on leveling speed and xp distribution anyway. Aggrend said in that interview with xaryu that forever time-to-twenty(TTT) was comparable to anniversary TTT, but people werent following optimized routes on week 1 of beta. If unoptimized TTT in beta matches optimized TTT in Anni, thats a problem. Beta has no promise of permanence. Wipe them boys and get better data to make the actual release better.
Also, watching all these gold buyers freak out will be gold.
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u/OpinionDude5000 2d ago
Ban a few gold buying streamers and earn a ton of street cred, Blizz!
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u/nakknudd 2d ago
I hope they wait until the tourney starts to ban them. Maximum viewership to witness The Consequences.
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u/Nice-Entertainer-922 2d ago
Nothing like a little bit of a Red Wedding.
Not that they will, but funny all the same.
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u/BloodForce 2d ago
it's very interesting when gold buyers can be banned, but streamers who receive donation in gold not.
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u/backpacks645 2d ago
Ban them the week of the tourney for 30 days so they have to miss launch hit the streamers business hard , ban them if they make an alt account
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u/GanjaClause 2d ago edited 2d ago
I actually like Ziqo a lot but a level 1 running up to him & trading 380g on stream has to be the most blatant gold buying transaction I've ever seen, even if he's not the one that paid for it.
He should be banned imo
Edit: Blizzard removed all the gold from Ziqo's character. No ban.
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u/GoodIdea321 2d ago
They could ban him for a smaller amount of time as long as that time is the entirety of the tournament he was planning to do.
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u/Round_Caterpillar_41 2d ago
they should just permaban goldbuyers like they said they will
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u/galygher 2d ago
Watching him crash the fuck out and call everyone on reddit "fucking retards" over and over again at the end of his stream was satisfying.
The man's ego is just too inflated. And tbh idk if blizzard should be partnered with a guy who calls the wow community names like that.
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u/Any_Attorney4765 2d ago
Nah, ban the person who bought the gold and the person who sold it. That's a very slippery slope to start banning people who are just being traded the gold. Banning the streamer will mean people just keep buying more gold to grief other streamers. Banning the person buying and trading the gold stops it happening again
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u/Flurp_ 2d ago
Only if they also remove the bought gold from the final destination too.
I get the people advocating for bans but that's simply because we've not seen any adequate enforcement from blizzard, and a ban is the only action that we know of once the gold has changed hands.
If they show us through real examples that they can follow the trail of gold past the two parties and down to later trades where the people accepting should have known better (extremely unbalanced exchanges with strangers), then there are other things they can do like deducting the bought gold, even into the negatives if it's been spent like other games do.
It's really just a case of blizzard building a real base of trust around enforcing their rules, and making people feel like actions have consequences, since their track record thus far has done the opposite
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u/breachgnome 2d ago
I know a guy who runs two accounts. He trades the gold he buys from the burner to the main.
Ban both accounts. Stop accepting random money. It's fuckin' simple.
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u/Any_Attorney4765 2d ago
I feel like that thing would be very easy to track and ban with high confidence. Does he use the same burner account every time? Does he use it from the same location and pc?
I'm suggesting it this way because I don't want myself or anyone to get banned for giving a friend gold. Sometimes I'll convince a friend to start playing again and give them gold to get started. Will I just get banned for that now?
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u/Fit-Percentage-9166 2d ago edited 2d ago
Will I just get banned for that now?
It's unclear what automated flags Blizzard has in place, but if you trip one of them you may get hit with an automated ban. If that happens you will be able to get it overturned but you will basically have to spam open tickets until you get an actual human being instead of an AI chatbot to speak with you and investigate your case. You could get lucky and get a human on the first try or it might take a ton including threats of banning you for continued tickets (which you can safely ignore because you're already banned and it's pretty much an empty threat to discourage you).
Realistically it's unlikely that an established account without any gold selling warning flags that gives gold to a new player account will be flagged and you will probably be fine, but false bans absolutely are a thing and you should be aware of how to get them overturned.
This is just speculation, but from what I can tell, false RMT bans are triggered by some kind of direct economic activity with an account that has been flagged as a gold seller by their internal systems.
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u/imisstheyoop 2d ago
I feel like that thing would be very easy to track and ban with high confidence. Does he use the same burner account every time? Does he use it from the same location and pc?
That's literally how it has worked on classic for years though and almost nobody ever gets banned lol. Blizz dgaf.
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u/biglawbowski 2d ago
You sound like a concerned streamer...
Ban the streamer who either 1. Bought gold 2. Accepted randomly bought gold from a stranger 3. Accepted legit gold FROM A STRANGER 2/3 of these outcomes are justified. One isn't. Set the example early, could even just be a ban from the beta with a very clear message to the streamers that they aren't special and going forward bans would be permanent like stated. Or just make them permanent regardless.
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u/roboscorcher 2d ago
Streamers should be banned for accepting any gifts IMO. Begging for gold and items on stream encourages their audience to buy gold for them. It's also just toxic degen behavior in general.
Ban e-begging.
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u/InducedLobotomy 2d ago
Almost sounds like a positive though. If the fear of being inadvertantly banned prevents these streamers from receiving tons of gear and gold from random fans, then it kind of makes them a normal player, like the rest of us without the advantage of fans spending days of their lives farming, solely to give it all to their fav streamer
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u/Rainy_Daz3d 2d ago
If he gave the gold away right away, as in “who tf is this, I’m streaming, why did you just give me gold?” Then he shouldnt be banned. But if it’s as blatant as it was, and just kept it.. yeah 🔨
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u/DildMaster 2d ago
I’m about it. Hit em with the switch up and watch em sweat. Watch the replays so you can style on em easier. Fuck yea, do it!
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u/ye_olde_wojak 2d ago
It's not just me, right? Buying gold in a one month beta is insane, right? Like, crazy, even? As in rubber room with rats crazy?
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u/seams 2d ago
It's pretty wild. Like I feel that some people don't realize it's a beta or it'll all be wiped wild lol
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u/Llyon_ 2d ago
The guy that bought gold got a shout out on Ziqo's stream, and is being talked about on reddit / twitter etc nonstop, I bet he is pretty happy with the outcome.
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u/NestroyAM 2d ago
Nobody even knows who that was, though, so since it was an alt named after how Ziqo named all his tournament alts.
Would make more sense if it was someone who makes gold making guides on YT or something.
Sound ad for that, I reckon.
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u/gradywhite7293 2d ago
"TTT" isn't a number. It's a distribution. So when they're comparing TTT between games, we don't know what parts of that distribution are being compared. Most likely, they're looking at the big fat bell shaped section in the middle that accounts for the large majority of "average" players. If those look the same between games, it's a pretty safe statement to say "TTT between anniversary and forever are comparable". What might also be true is that the tail ends of the distribution are not similar, and Forever could have a much much quicker "maximum" speed if you optimize. But that's not what most people playing the game are doing, so that's not how they're going to comment on it either.
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u/Fit-Percentage-9166 2d ago
It's extremely likely that the behavior of the majority of forever players forming the middle section of the distribution is being temporarily distorted by the fact that this is a beta capped at level 20. These conditions will obviously completely alter player incentives and behavior.
On launch I will be playing literally 20 hours a day and getting to 60 by the end of the week. Most of my guildies are insanely sweaty tryhards like me. When beta launched most of us were unironically stopping to smell the roses and just doing random shit, exploring, leveling professions, etc because there's no point in rushing in a beta with a level 20 cap.
My first character took around 20 hours to level like the average stated, but all of my following characters were closer to 10 because I was just focused on leveling to learn/practice.
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u/Lastyz 2d ago
You are not the majority mate.. most people who play work and can't commit 20 hours a day to the game.. 20 hours is almost concerning if you're being serious. I haven't even hit 20 on the beta and the levelling doesn't seem any quicker than regular classic.
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u/tinyElliss 2d ago
Okay, but players like you wont move the average that much, you guys are gonna be in 99th percentile.
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u/Fit-Percentage-9166 2d ago
I'm saying even a 99th percentile player like me had an incredibly slow leveling experience because I took my time to explore the new things available in the game. A beta with a level 20 cap incentivizes players to level slowly and is a horrible representation of the "average" leveling speed.
What Aggrend is doing is basically comparing the time it takes someone to run a half marathon and the time it takes someone to visit a museum and saying "look, they took the same amount of time! running a half marathon and walking through a museum are the same distance!"
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u/-1703- 2d ago
its further distorted because people genuinely havent figured out how to level.
like..at one point even the casuals with two neurons competing for third will figure out you can chain dungeon levels and leapfrog levels, to the point where the only downtime is getting the prequests for dungeons.
like you can do HOT at mid level 12, ding 13 in the middle of it by turning 2 quests and exit it at level 14...which is just in time for RoL...which allows you to get up to 16 and something. leaving just enough of a level gap to do the pre-quests for Deadmines and WC.
which spit you out into: SFK, ESW, COD and BFD...and you keep chain queue=ing them. I'd be shocked if the first group level 60s that are playing assisted dont ding 60 on launch under 65hs /played.
my guild is looking at party comps with 2 warlocks in HOT/ROL/WC to get them to 20 in order to help our runners with summons.
Now casuals wont do this type of shit...but even they will figure out chaining dungeons quests is the play.
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u/orus_heretic 2d ago
Blizzard needs to review how xp is rewarded from dungeons, it's going to be even worse than cleave group spam because we'll only need to run it once.
Half the people on this sub have been arguing with me for the past week that people will actually be out in the world questing and smelling flowers. The reality is by day 2 they'll all realize the dungeon quests are cracked.
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u/Jolly-Painting-6615 2d ago
Can't wait for <Unemployed> to level out of my bracket, y'all need balance in your lives. Fucking unhealthy to play like that.
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u/Fit-Percentage-9166 2d ago
I'm taking vacation from work and spending 3 days no lifing because I think it's really fun to get ahead of the curve on a new launch. Do you think I do this on a weekly basis or something?
I swear you toxic casuals are 100x more toxic and annoying than the sweats and minmaxxers you complain about. Why does the way I play the game bother you so much that you feel the need to personally insult me?
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u/Claris-chang 2d ago
The time to level that they quoted also didn't control for extra time spent on professions. So I think it's true that leveling is faster in Forever.
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u/Key_nine 2d ago
I don't understand, it is no big secret it would be faster. It is only faster because they give you more quests to do, less running from zone to zone to find those filler quests to make up for it. They never changed the xp needed from level to level or changed the math. It was just the added quests, I mean they could make quest xp lower but then what is the point of added quests.
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u/DepthChorge 2d ago
Big true. Also, I spent a lot of time doing the new quest chain for deadmines from the elf in the westfall inn that turned out to be super not worth. They need a second round of data.
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u/Silverbacks 2d ago
Yeah. 1-13 is fairly close to Classic. But once you hit 13 you can run RFC/HoT which will get you close to 16. Then you can run RoL and DM/WC and be 20.
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u/jonasbw 2d ago
Also, there are more quests, so there is also a bigger xp pool pr zone
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u/Tarmyniatur 2d ago
Bro I swear people are lobotomized, if you did a RFC in classic at 14 you'd also get 1 and a half levels from quests and the increased mob xp relative to forever.
It's faster because of quest density not the Alliance RFC. And you won't do RoL on launch without a friendgroup in any significant amount of time, just the run there takes 40 mins.
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u/Silverbacks 2d ago
It still wasn’t that fast. Going from 13-20 usually didn’t happen in a single afternoon for non-speedrunners.
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u/Tarmyniatur 2d ago
I agree but it's because of quests being streamlined not a lvl 14 instance.
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u/Silverbacks 2d ago
The extra dungeon makes a big difference too. Alliance usually had to wait until closer to 20 to even run a single dungeon. Sure, they may not all run RoL at launch, but they will have the Stockades later on to make up for that.
RFC was fairly skippable on Horde, but now they have 3 dungeons they can chain back to back to back to blast up to level 20, the moment they hit 13-14.
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u/7figureipo 2d ago
It’s definitely true. I leveled mining by hitting nodes, not just smelting, and blacksmithing as well, and it took me all of a day played doing quests in a very unoptimized and haphazard way, with no dungeon runs. I think if I’d focused just on leveling my toon I could have reduced that to a few hours.
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u/door_of_doom 2d ago
Forever goes out of its way to make it so that leveling professions is worth your while, why would we treat that like its a bad thing, especially when doing so doesn't negatively impact time-to-twenty?
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u/Fit-Percentage-9166 2d ago
Professions will 100% negatively impact your time to twenty even in Forever. They are certainly more useful than they were in classic, but it's still a huge time loss from a leveling perspective.
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u/Claris-chang 2d ago
I don't think it's a bad thing nor am I claiming that. In fact I think it's one of the best things about forever.
Why I take issue with it is that it signals a lack of confidence in the leveling and profession systems working together that they felt the need to reduce the amount of time to level to make up for the increased time spent on professions.
I think in a Forever game mode that the two systems eating into each other will reduce the overall lifespan of the game. It should take equal if not more time to hit 60 from before because it should take as much time to level a 60 and max a profession in era.
You should not be subtracting the profession time from the leveling time. If the journey matters as much as the destination then the dev's instinct shouldn't be to reduce thr time leveling just because you spend more time doing professions simultaneously now.
I'm finding it kind of hard to express my feelings. If I was to try and say it in one sentence it'd be: "professions should be additive to the original leveling experience, not subtractive in order to meet an exact average time where professions were originally overlooked."
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u/Flurp_ 2d ago
I personally think it's the wrong (or perhaps "dated") way of looking at it. In all past expansions there's been the idea of phases or seasons. This forces us to think of "time taken" in a different way.
We don't have any comparison left to the "original levelling experience" because that was purely a one-off in 2004/5, every level bracket and expansion or reboot since then has come with the same two things known:
- There is a finite number of resets of raid content, (single digit months) you can do before the next phase comes and invalidates (to varying degrees depending on the phasr/expansion) a large portion of gear
- Everything obtained at 60 is vastly superior to any level prior
The combination of the two encourages you to think of anything 1-59 that isn't net exp positive as a "subtraction" like you say. This was necessarily true in the past, but I would hope to see them really follow through with what they said and change the two points above.
If its about the journey and not the destination, it's okay to have things to do that give progress <60 in areas that are not exp. But only if you aren't losing the rat race to the next phase by slowing yourself down and losing rolls/opportunities at the "finite" 60 content.
If they truly remove the notion that you are losing out by getting to 60 a bit later, then the idea of crafting/gathering as you go vs rushing to 60 and doing professions in the downtime between content gets much much closer (to the point where it isn't detrimental to the value of your time spent). That would be the true test to professions (and any other secondary character progression)
That said, I do think the "big" one-off self BoP crafts could use some additional flavour. Classic purists will hate me, but considering the cost involved and the fact that you are only crafting 1(or two if you off spec) of those BoP blues at any tier, I feel they could have a "first time craft" bonus of +3 or +5 skill points (only one for each "tier" of item, so crafting 2 different lvl20 helms stille only gives one bonus).
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u/TheClassicAndyDev 2d ago
And the amount of time fighting for quest mobs and dealing with the bullshit of a mega server.
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u/DysfunctionalControl 2d ago
With the hyper spawn rate I'd argue its better than waiting 5 mins for spawns. Plus almost everyone i tried to group with joined and made the quests faster.
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u/pls-answer 2d ago
They'd have to be really incompetent to misinterpret their data that bad, but to be fair I think they are so might aswel remind them of stuff like this.
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u/Sure-Paper3027 2d ago
I think he said that before people realized you could just hit 14 then cruise through dungeon quests to 20. It feels alot faster with all these huge xp dungeon quests
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u/orus_heretic 2d ago
With an optimized route we can hit 20 in 7-8 hours. Maybe faster with a good group.
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u/20milliondollarapi 2d ago
Honestly. Yes. That would be so fun to have everyone start yet again for the beta.
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u/_leeloo_7_ 2d ago
"I got the gold from a random level 1 follower"
BAN! you should know better to accept 300 gold from a random level 1 its on you!
If they don't this just gives players the green light to gold buy via a 3rd party throw away alt
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u/Mminas 2d ago
Kungen has a "No handouts" policy. It's not hard to be a bit responsible as a streamer.
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u/koramar 2d ago
People keep bringing up this level 1 thing like it matters. Bank/ah alts are a thing you know.
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u/T3DtheRipper 2d ago
Ey this is reddit, we don't like this line reasoning here, the pitchforks are already out, this streamer guy needs to be lynched now
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u/_leeloo_7_ 2d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1wt78i9/ziqoftw_blizzard_took_donated_gold/
just normal innocent banking alts with 520 gold on a level 20 capped realm
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u/Soapykorean 2d ago
Some of us have been testing 1-20 routes a lot, not going into details but I can promise you for speed levelers it’s not the same speed, it’s wayyyy faster.
But as always, it’s about getting ahead of the pack, especially with the mega server even with all the layers I don’t think launch is going to be that fast unless you get lucky or are keen on some of the cheese to get ahead.
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u/NestroyAM 2d ago
For some reason, speed levellers consistently beat the Qs. That’s always interesting.
There’s definitely some tricks like opening multiple .exes, staying in one screen while the servers are not yet online.
Would love to know more
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u/SystemGardener 2d ago
I feel like optimized routes in forever should be quicker than in classic, and it’s weird to think other wise. Of course it’s going to be slightly quicker with significantly more quests and dungeons to do.
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u/Imaginary_Wait9762 2d ago
They won't ban streamers they personally fly out to their offices to get their idea on how a game they stream 17 hours a day should be made.
We're in the timeline of Homer Simpson creating his own car.
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u/Pereg1907 2d ago
It still wouldn’t be apples to apples comparison. The way the layers get packed to the gills no matter where you are, every quest has people camping spawns.
If you think in terms of classic servers and you are thinking you’re ahead on your server, you’re not on forever because all the people who would have been ahead on their respective server are now put into the same layer.
So the point is you’re waiting on mobs and drops more in forever than classic and that will skew your time to thirty comparison.
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u/DepthChorge 2d ago
Fs it's not perfect, but another round can only be useful data. As it stands, the data on 20-30 content is fucked. People saving up quests, up to FOURTY to turn in, cuz they were stuck at lvl 20 means we're gonna lose out on a lot of useful data.
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u/thumbtaks 2d ago edited 2d ago
Right? These turbo nerds optimizing the shit out of everything think that everyone plays like them. (Source: am reformed turbo nerd) I used to do that too but I’ve come to realize that enjoying the process and just doing whatever I think is the most fun at any given time is actually far more enjoyable.
For era I took a two weeks off work and just went ham on leveling multiple toons and their professions.
Anniversary I had two full pre bis 60s before the second raid lockout.
On the beta I’ve just been dicking around across a few characters leveling professions, 100%ing zones, sometimes just grinding on mobs or farming mats doing laps and it’s been a ton more fun. My highest level is 16. Having a blast doing it this way.
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u/davidchanger 2d ago
I think also that a lot of people are legit taking their time, leveling up fishing, cooking, everything else, so that skews the speed metrics also. Wipe it, let's goooooo!
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u/Ok_Razzmatazz2478 2d ago
That’s so true :D first char 1-20 20h why? Because I was exploring, reading. Second chars 13 h and I spent maybe 1-2 h for my professions.
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u/cpammapc 1d ago
They should really do a Red Wedding style of event, out of nowhere, just before the tournament starts.
Make it a marketing event for WoW Forever. All the jazz, everything. Meme out of it on socials. Create the streamers reaction edits. It will be so fun to watch. Troll everyone hard!
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u/Lucky-Peak-8256 2d ago
If blizzard restarted the servers when the cap is increased that'd be amazing!
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u/DismalFee763 2d ago
"If unoptimized TTT in beta matches optimized TTT in Anni, thats a problem."
Why?
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u/DepthChorge 2d ago
Because that data point was used by Aggrend to say that WoW:F leveling speed was perfectly aligned.
That interpretation completely ignores the reality that WoW:F players in week 1 were playing with new systems, checking out new talent points, doing more crafting, and learning new zones.
What it means is when WoW:F leveling paths are solved, the leveling experience will be so fast that the core pillar of "enjoying the journey" will crumble. It'll just be a sprint to 60 simulator.
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u/Fit-Percentage-9166 2d ago
Because that data point was used by Aggrend to say that WoW:F leveling speed was perfectly aligned.
Aggrend is a fucking idiot and this is a great example among many why. He will continue to provide more examples in the near future.
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u/depj 2d ago
I swear to god, I feel like i may have a superpower. The ability to give 0 fucks how others choose to play. Some of you are so fucking pressed about how others play the game. It gets worse when you realize the majority of you are 30+.
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u/Rage_King27 2d ago
It also doesn’t weigh on me really but, I have the foresight to understand how it can affect the economy, bots farming areas to acquire gold to sell - making playing the game harder, and the continued precedent of Blizzard allowing it to continue.
Your argument is actually very similar to when people say they ‘don’t give af’ about politics - even though it influences the outcome of many things in your life.
The folks that are ‘fucking pressed’ are the voices trying to influence things that benefit you. No need to put them down like they are all some form of man-child. It’s okay to be passionate about things you like and weigh in on how you want things to be.
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u/PissBlaster2k 2d ago
if you really play and participate in the game, like the actual MMO part, then how others play will also affect you if they find ways to abuse you.
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u/Kuajinai 2d ago
i would love that so much is such an obvious solution
that would make them fear that the next lvl cap they would wipe again the server so it would make gold buying worthless
knowing it will get wipe in a few months doesn't stop them but knowing it will be every lvl cap it could maybe stop that a little
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u/door_of_doom 2d ago
it would make gold buying worthless
This is beta. everything is already going to be wiped. it is already worthless.
There is only going to be one cap increase, 20 to 30. there isn't going to be another cap increase on beta.
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u/DionxDalai 2d ago
There's not another level cap after they raise it to 30, the beta will end at 30
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u/FixBlackLotusBlizz 2d ago
wait are you saying we should get........
FRESH!!!!!!!!!
YES PLZ!!!
classic forever FRESH! beta
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u/Ostraga 2d ago edited 2d ago
Anyone who says that leveling isnt vastly faster right now compared to classic is completely delusional. I honestly dont care what your data says, if it says otherwise, your data is wrong.
- On Classic Era I hit 20 in about ~13 hours.
- In Forever I'm hitting 20 pretty consistently ~8 hours.
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u/mangostoast 2d ago
Why do people care so much about tiny differences in leveling speed? Just play the game
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u/harrisjgold 2d ago
Because the game is more about the leveling journey and experience than level 60 end game content, which isn't even available at launch.
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u/Jtrain360 2d ago
Disagree. I much prefer the endgame gearing + raiding than I do leveling.
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u/Kamay1770 2d ago
Ban the streamers buying gold. Blizz has no spine or integrity allowing that and literally just making a blue post about not getting caught. Fucking pathetic.
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u/DarkPrincessEcsy 2d ago
I could get down with this. There are some 20-twinkers who would be upset, but it IS a beta, so...
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u/whateverwhatis 2d ago
Everything I've ever done in any early access or beta ever, I have done with the understanding that this is temporary. If they think their beta characters can't be deleted at any point, they misunderstand the purpose of beta and testing.
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u/wewladdies 2d ago
Aggrend said in that interview with xaryu that forever time-to-twenty(TTT) was comparable to anniversary TTT, but people werent following optimized routes on week 1 of beta.
im glad someone else picked up on this. This is the slowest 1-20 leveling in forever will ever be, because nothing is figured out. comparing it to a wholly solved game (vanilla) is really really dumb.
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u/orus_heretic 2d ago
I did a whole sightseeing tour of new sub zones on my way to 20 and it still took me like 14h on my first character. Granted I've leveled a million characters in era/ vanilla/etc. I expect a sub 10hr time if I actually focus on it and dungeon quest xp is unchanged.
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u/MightyMorp 2d ago
If they want people to specifically test 20-30 then wiping is the dumbest possible idea they could do (they know this).
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u/-----Null 2d ago
You cant think of any reasons why data about 20-30 might be skewed by everyone leveling their twinked out level 20s with maxed professions and to 30?
I think they'll get the data they need but resetting wouldnt hurt their data, people would still play and relevel, a lot of people would be upset about it for sure though and that wouldnt be good sentiment.
Personally I have a twinked out hunter on horde and shaman on alliance and It would be fun if they reset, a whole new fresh, and everyone knows a little bit more. 2 fresh in 1 beta? Thats like get 3 mangos for 5 dollars!
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u/paped2 2d ago
I'm not sure they care to much about that, they can probably get decent data on leveling pace by filtering out certain characters. Probably want as many people possible testing the quests, dungeons, talents, etc
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u/-----Null 2d ago
Thats fair, they dont really need a ton of data on tuning and there will likely be enough non-geared players that level 20-30 to get that information.
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u/DepthChorge 2d ago
Nah. These players will do that and more in the weeks left of beta. A 1-20 wipe is barely 20 hours of catchup.
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u/Gyat_Hunter_42 2d ago
Currently you have people that have maxed their professions, 40 quests waiting to be turned in, and sitting in bis level 20 gear.
Wiping would give them actual data because people would be leveling from 20-30 just like they would be on launch...
How is it the dumbest possible idea? Do you think barely anyone would level up to 30?
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u/MightyMorp 2d ago
Do you think that because people are wearing blues at 20 already that the "data" isn't actual data?
wtf is this sentiment? what do you think they're testing? do you work for them?
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u/Pale-Combination7433 2d ago
It is data, but it’s skewed. Not hard to understand
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u/MightyMorp 2d ago
I bet a company that has 30 years of experience parsing player data might have the ability to understand the nuance of that.
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u/Desth-Metal 2d ago
Why is that a problem? Why is the leveling being retardedly slow a good thing?
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u/DepthChorge 2d ago
Nobody said "retardedly slow". Not "the fastest it's ever been" is the main goal right now.
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u/Xandril 2d ago
It’s going to be faster. The quest count has increased which means less time traveling to find XP in other parts of the world every few levels.
Less time grinding mobs or rerunning dungeons.
There’s nothing wrong with current leveling speeds and for that matter we shouldn’t be determining what is appropriate based on the speed of some optimized route built by the nerdiest WoW players to ever exist. That’s ridiculous.
It’d be like changing Mario levels to take longer because some speed runner figured out a way to do it super fast. It literally doesn’t matter for how most people will play it.
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u/Nippahh 2d ago
Source?
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u/DepthChorge 2d ago
What's the source on my own goal of forever not having an exceptionally fast level experience? Bro, the source for my opinions is literally my ass, as it could only be.
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u/Desth-Metal 2d ago
Just don’t optimize then? Making leveling smoother by adding more quests is a very good thing to do. Reducing the experience gains to make it a slog again and cater to you would be a bad move.
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u/DepthChorge 2d ago
Strawman. Nothing about my post suggests that the end goal is self-serving regarding fine-tuning of leveling pace. The underlying assumption is that a more measured leveling pace makes the experience more enjoyable to a wider audience, and more enjoyable to a wider audience means a healthier game.
You can hold the opposite opinion if you want, but don't misrepresent others to try and put their opinions down.
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u/Alejinh 2d ago
That's mathematically and factually incorrect tho. Slower leveling has always meant fewer active players and a shorter lifespan for the server. Just go and check the difference between classic servers after 2 months and retail after 2 months of a new expansion... I don't like retail, but leveling in classic is awful, nothin to be proud about.
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u/DepthChorge 2d ago
Okay, one, forever isnt for the retail crowd. Second, I'm not advocating for an excessively long leveling pace. You're strawmanning my argument. I'm advocating for a longer leveling process than what current exists in beta, which is the fastest its ever been.
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u/sinlaire3456 2d ago
Allow the rmters to buy, trade, sell gold. When wow forever launches hit them with the ban. Blizzard holds up their anti rmt marketing, and streamer affected by the ban wave gives Blizzard free marketing while crying to their chat.
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u/jehhans1 2d ago
I have tested more optimized routes and it is about 10% faster than Era on troll rogues. Now this is only with my own route, but I have optimised it for leveling with potentially a lot of players in the zone also.
I am also comparing them to times that my friends have gotten using RestedXP on Era, but I have not fact checked them, so they could be lying.
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u/misterbigchad69 2d ago
Out of curiosity, what kind of times are your friends claiming to get?
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u/jehhans1 2d ago
between 9 and 10 hours and I got it down to 8h30m hours on the Beta (I only did RFC + ROL) as dungeons and it was with guildies, though nobody was max level, but some of them went slower and had way more gear than me.
I ended twice with multiple white items
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u/JDogg126 2d ago edited 2d ago
A lot of people are coming back because the game itself is good, not because of streamers. I doubt the majority of potential players watch twitch. I watched the blizzcon videos and some of the dev interviews so my YouTube feed has a bunch of streamers now which is a bit annoying. The stuff I have seen is mostly streamers watching and reacting to other people’s videos. Boring.
There is no real solution to RMT unfortunately. The best they can do is build systems to detect suspicious character actions and transactions. In real life there is no way to stop a determined thief but locking your doors keeps honest people honest. Blizzard needs to make a deterrent. I just don’t see how they can actually stop the determined. Try to keep the most honest people honest as possible.
Consequences are another thing. What to do with those who get caught when people can just start another account. There is profit in RMT and buying copies of the game doesn’t seem to be a deterrent for the sellers.
Do they go to some kind of “know your player” system where only people with verified id can play? I’m not sure people would like that but hey if you get banned for RMT they can ban you from ever playing again.
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u/Stornholio69 1d ago
I want to see the times in an uncrowdes environment. Questing is a nightmare atm.
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u/Karthis_Arkwood 20h ago
Nah, plenty of people will level new characters anyway. This is a beta; none of this really matters to us, normal players. This would only anger a large portion of the population.
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u/shitposter7654321 2d ago
WIPE! BACK IN MY DAY BETA$$ TOOK YEARS.
EverQuest! Warcraft!! Dayz!!! Give it a SLOWED down game vibe but huge grind like OSRS.
Classic Forever Alpha Intial Testing
And MAKE IT VR Compatibility and it will fuck
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u/dinklberg1990 2d ago
Wait people are buying gold for a beta version of the game lol