r/classicwow • u/Droovert • 2d ago
Forever Beta Feedback Can we have the old portrait instead of the retail ones ?
I thought it was a given that, upon choosing the SD option when first launching the game I would get the iconic portraits.
Finding instead the retail slop ones was disappointing. Can blizzard give us those back and I guess, draw some for the smurfs ?
I know some of you will blame me for this. Saying this does not matter, but it does. When creating an alt, the OG set up the vibe and are a big part of the iconography that allows you to imagine what your next toon will be.
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u/Ant_Bizzy 2d ago
These portraits were drawn artwork whereas the new ones are just 3d renders of the models. The OG portraits really conveyed personality and culture. The Human looks proud and determined, the Dwarf looks rugged and seasoned, the Night Elf looks wise and mystical, the Orc looks savage and war ready, the Forsaken looks menacing/horrific, so on and so forth.
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u/ballsbag420 2d ago
This is why the wont go back, for any new added races they arent going to commission hand drawn art, theyre going to make a rendering of their model. Having had drawn renderings and 3d model renderings side by side at character creation would look bad and weird.
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u/Snowballz3000 1d ago
I’m pretty sure the multibillion dollar company can hire artists to hand draw new icons
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u/ballsbag420 1d ago
Agreed, didnt say they couldnt, said they wouldnt. You dont make that much money by spending on frills, you make that much money by cutting corners.
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u/Snowballz3000 1d ago
True I agree. I honestly doubt blizzard will do anything about it. I mean why do all that hard work ammi right? Who cares about the art anyways? Let’s just use the retail models even though this game is (supposed) to have classic as its foundation.
These are trivial problems now, but people defending or brushing this off in the thread should realize this could snowball and get worse. This game isn’t even out yet and there’s already conflicting art and models.
I’ll take a little hopium and say maybe the classic team will listen to the fans and hopefully make better decisions from here on out regarding the aesthetics of the game, but the current lack of a solid cohesive visuals is just jarring and worrying.
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u/i_continue_to_unmike 1d ago
but people defending or brushing this off in the thread should realize this could snowball and get worse
It will snowball. That's not doomposting or anything, it's just a fact.
Their intention with Forever is clear and it''s a cool vision.
The execution visually, with so much imported retail stuff, doesn't line up with the vision. Lots of small "practical" choices will add up over time and smother the soul of the thing.
It's not the end of the world, I'm not doomposting, but I've been around the block enough times to know how this will go.
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u/Snowballz3000 1d ago
Yeah I hear you. Pretty much on the same page
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u/i_continue_to_unmike 1d ago
In the meantime, hopefully it is fun.
But I definitely think after the hype dies down if it loses its SOVL it will just kinda be another weird retailish branch that needs support while also having Retail, Anniversary, and Era.
It is definitely a "you get one shot at this" kind of release and I would hope that would light a fire under Blizzard to whole-ass it.
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u/Areliae 1d ago
I dunno, to me, Blizzard is a company that was built on spending on frills. Like...Warcraft 3 was a game that had loved poured into every tiny corner and crevice, and that game launched entire genres. The small assets no one would ever see, the details you'd need to hunt down to appreciate, the minor polish given to things that most players would never even experience. This was their MO in the old days. It's why they had such a good reputation.
Hiring artists to draw new icons would have zero noticeable effect on the bottom line. And yeah, it has almost as little effect on the actual experience, but the effect of details tends to multiply when added together, and it's a sign of the passion put into a project.
When developers aren't actually passionate about their work, and cut corners, I can feel it. And it does impact my enjoyment.
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u/psychohistorian8 1d ago
could probably just
stealborrow some art from Hearthstone or something at least5
u/Ant_Bizzy 2d ago
Totally understand that, also dont see why we cant get new portraits that are sort of "remastered" and still have the same essence as the OG portraits. They dont have to be hand drawn but they also dont have to be 3d rendered either. Blizzard has staff dedicated to art/illustration.
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u/Beacon2001 2d ago
I 100% agree with this. I've always loved those portraits so much. I don't even know why. I love the race portraits and many old-school spell icons (like Smite, Holy Fire, Mage portals). I guess I just like the old-school design for these icons' artwork. It's a difficult feeling to explain.
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u/mags87 1d ago
I want the classic portraits in game with the health and mana bars too. I immediately moved them to the top left corner where it belongs.
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u/tear_atheri 1d ago
Ahh, that's the one thing i'd never do. i don't wanna glance halfway across the screen to look at my health. the modern was wins in this case
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u/Irvincible17 1d ago
It's quite gritty and, frankly, metal as fuck.
I think it's a product of its time, I think.
It's like you can sort of tell what media the artist has consumed by their creation.
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u/Lunacy182 2d ago
As a retail player that plays with HD models, I agree with you. The classic portraits look better.
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u/CrustedTesticle 2d ago edited 1d ago
Classic UI toggle. Give it to us.
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u/ThatLeetGuy 1d ago
Sadly, when Xaryu brought it up on the dev interview podcast, they said that addons will exist for that and they won't be adding it themselves. Huge L, especially when they harp about wanting to move away from addons so much.
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u/i_wear_green_pants 1d ago
To specify they want to move away from mandatory feature addons like damage meter and swing timers. They want that no one is forced to use addons to get "mandatory feature". And I think they managed to pull that off with Forever.
But visuals of UI are all over the place. I feel that there are so many different styles going on that UI doesn't look like it's made by one company.
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u/Lord_NOX75 2d ago
Classic + should look like classic
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u/Sucon_Productions 1d ago
I wish we were getting classic plus, game looks more like retail minus. I don't think current blizzard actually understands classic wow.
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u/Aromatic-Quarter-68 1d ago
Retail minus… holy shit. That’s exactly what it is. All these retail players glazing the retail-like additions to forever just want a new version of retail to play
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u/Guilty_Amount4148 1d ago
It shouldn't even be up for debate. That art style is better, it's Warcraft. <3
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u/Takezo_00 1d ago
Yeah I hate the character select art. Part of it is… the original portraits are objectively better. It kinda baffles me why they would have ever replaced them in the first place with the current versions, like who made that call? Such an obvious loss (despite being small). Makes me question the art direction decisions in general and how they’re being made.
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u/Danielbes 1d ago
To the people telling us to stop whining about these "small" things; these developers are the same people who refused to give us classic because "you think you do, but you don't". They genuinely believe that the game and art design of retail is superior to classic, and only when we shouted form the rooftops that we wanted classic did they give in.
We need to shout from the rooftops now again if we want wow forever to be in any way shape or form similar to classic, because they sure as hell will not give it to us of their own accord.
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u/rufusbot 1d ago
No apparently classic stuff doesn't belong in Classic plus. Can't figure out why but that seems to be the rule.
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u/itsablackhole 2d ago
I never understood why they changed them in the first place
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u/soul-regret 2d ago
not enough budget to make an illustration for the ""new"" race
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u/acrazyguy 1d ago
There’s so many things that I have this same thought about. “Why even fucking change it?” Like they spent dev time to make things worse. It’s awful
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u/HollowThief 1d ago
While I think it is super minor and doesn't really matter, it warms my heart to see how people are FINALLY in open war with the godawful, outdated, sterile and disneyfied retail models.
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u/Reasonable_Lake_7942 2d ago
It would be an insult to fragile blizzard not to include their new disney portraits
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u/bobbyjy32 2d ago
I think they’ve been receptive to feedback. And i cant imagine this is a hard change!
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u/BioDefault 2d ago
Incoming: "Stop crying, omg stop crying! Can you hear your own crying over my totally valid 'opinion'!?!!??"
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u/yojimbofog 2d ago
Honestly seeing Forever just makes me feel bad for Retail players. I know most of them claim to unironically like the new models but I'm convinced it's just full blown Stockholm syndrome at this point. I get not wanting the old low poly models, I get preferring a prettier higher fidelity game, but the WoD models are just so unbelievably fucking hideous looking. They were bad 12 years ago and they're still bad today.
Praying for the Retail players to get their own remake of the player models. You deserve better than this disney slop.
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u/odiferous_strobilus 1d ago
Turns out mass market just wants to consume slop. Do you think retail players even understand the nuance required to understand why retail is slop? Of course not. Head into the trough.
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u/GreyWolfx 1d ago
I think little things like this give the game away in regards to how blizzard feel about WoW Forever. Is it vanilla with tweaks, or is it retail with vanilla references mixed in?
The default should be vanilla always.
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u/Individual_Thanks309 2d ago
I literally refuse to believe that anyone at Blizzard actually thinks the new ones are better... Ain't no way.
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u/getdownwithDsickness 1d ago
Its exacerbated by the fact the skyborne have no personality and both factions look the same
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u/romyori 2d ago
it’s so annoying the people who jump into these discussions like “it doesn’t bother me, so shut up and go back to era!” like what is the point of muddying the waters?
Some people actually have attention to detail and are bringing up valid criticism, or at least something that should be included in the damn SD toggle!
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u/IKindaPlayEVE 2d ago
This is one of those things that changed in retail and you have to ask yourself why. The amount of time it took to make those new icons is probably dwarfed by the time spent discussing the changes in meetings and getting approvals. An example of waste in game dev. Are these icons, for all intents and purposes, inconsequential? Yes. Which begs the question why change them at all? So even though changing them back for Forever would take MORE time I do support changing them back on principle alone....and they look 10x better.
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u/NotARandomizedName0 1d ago
I agree, but can we stop calling everything imperfect slop?
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u/WendigoCrossing 2d ago
While the best option would be to select the style at launch so it applies to everything like this, at least you only spend a few mins at this screen anyway
What bothers me more is how they have to write out the entire title of the skyborne faction
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u/citramonk 1d ago
I like the old portraits to much and I have a simple reason for it. And it's not nostalgia. They're cool picture representation of each race, made specifically for this purpose. They are stylish and unique. Now the new portraits look like screenshots from the in-game models.
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u/VirtU_Art 2d ago
The new ones are all naked and sad.
Old ones are clothed, expressive, and ready to rumble.
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u/makedaddyfart 1d ago
The undead aura loss is huge with retail vs old. Forever is trying to restore them to the rightful place, they need to continue with the portraits!
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u/Celeleron 1d ago
I really don't understand why there isn't a Classic UI option. I don't want my spell book to cover half my screen. I want the old character frames. I want elite and rare monsters to have their old detailed dragons again. I don't want an ugly garish glow effect around my character window every time I apply a armor patch. The old UI was fine, why did they change that of all things?
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u/luckfore 1d ago
They added the old portraits to the game files in last week's beta update so i wouldn't be surprised to see them soon.
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u/do_a_pizza_roll 1d ago
The new ones are terrible. They literally did that botched Jesus painting 'restoration' to our beloved portraits
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u/No_Replacement_1686 1d ago
Yeah the old ones have been better... but honestly this is absolutely inconsequential... you see that ONCE per character.
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u/ShadowCatZeroMeow 2d ago
I was gonna say the female icons look AI generated but apparently they are from 8 years ago, someone actually drew those half-ass.
All the female icons here are the currently used ones in forever.
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u/Punelle 2d ago
The retail one legit looks like someone made it with ai where the entire Warcraft art is gone, I hate it
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u/Lowelll 2d ago
"The retail one looks like AI, here check out this AI thing I made" lol
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u/BioDefault 2d ago
I think the point was to compare the retail one in the middle to the AI generated one on the right, and draw contrast to the original's design.
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u/disastrous_hyena759 2d ago
The retail version uses hd in-game race models, while Classic uses portraits to depict the different races. If they used the sd models instead, people would still find it weird and probably think they were AI-generated because they look so different from the Classic portraits and also because people are stupid and can't tell the difference between an in-game model and a portrait.
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u/MainDot7096 1d ago
The sad part is that the actual AI generated ones I've seen (not these though) are better than the retail ones. Absolutely either a skill issue on the artist's part, or a failure in art direction.
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u/Atzr10 2d ago
The new ones have literally and figuratively and biblically and metaphorically ZERO GRIT to them.
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u/Synli 2d ago
Blizzard started straying from that "Warcraft grit" as early as Cata, but really buried it with MOP.
One of the reasons I loved Wotlk so much was that it felt very faithful (art wise) to the OG Warcraft. If they used the grittiness of Wrath/Warcraft with the improved shadows/lighting/weather that we have in Forever/retail, I think we'd have the best of both worlds.
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u/PlayfulSurprise5237 2d ago
It's not just the portraits, I've been saying a bit of the UI looks that way too.
It's that super minimalist overpolished look. Like AI made it, or an OCD UI designer without the help of an artist.
It's the same ***kind*** of look retails art has too. There's something about it I can't quite put my finger on, but it's terrible
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u/slightlysublevel 2d ago
A "bit" of the UI? Are you blind? It's literally 100% retail UI and interfaces. The only thing it has from "Classic" is the vanilla world map and the shape of the talent trees.
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u/Inevitable-Ad-6334 1d ago
it lacks art direction. its bland and has no texture to it that fits a fantasy setting. it looks like mobile game ui design.
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u/Jclevs11 2d ago
it honestly does. its so bland, empty. has no soul or character or personality. i liked the old portraits, always portrayed them being in battle or expressions that convey whatever to your imagination
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u/LegolandoBloom 1d ago
They are just snapshots of the 3d models. I certainly don't prefer them either but they definitely don't look anything like that AI monstrosity to the right
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u/Phurbie_Of_War 2d ago
Orc goes from “LOKTAR OGAR” to “Zug Zug”
Undead goes from some crazed monster you see in nightmares to just got done with my 9 to 5.
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u/disastrous_hyena759 2d ago
Because the retail version doesn’t use portraits of the race’s characters. Instead, it uses the actual in-game models for the pictures.
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u/tinylittlebabyjesus 1d ago
I actually don't think those AI ones look bad except for the Troll. Jesus. I love Trolls, but don't think I'd have ever rolled them if I was going to look like that.
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u/Troflecopter 1d ago
This proposal would never pass corporate approval.
It acknowledges that there are two genders.
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u/Crazy_And_Me 1d ago
And in response you post an actual AI shot with all the Warcraft art taken out and replaced with generic fantasy?
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u/Chance-Cup4566 2d ago
Idk why people care you literally see them for 2 minutes when youre creating a character and then thats it.
Is it REALLY that big of a deal?
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u/Enchylada 1d ago
Xaryu pointed this out perfectly: if you are compromising on the little things the same mindset will appear when you are in charge of building big things
Details matter.
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u/Droovert 2d ago
It is the second thing you see when launching the game, after the loading screen.
It does matter.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/EmoLotional 1d ago
What's fine next time is: reskinned out of place elves we played since the first expansion being price tagged for 30$ and 30€ which by the way $ and € shouldn't be the same number and somehow it is despite there being many European countries that actually don't make as much as Americans.
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u/james9514 1d ago
Yeah buddy its a big deal, these small things imply big things that affect the game majorly
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u/scotaloo7 2d ago
Some dudes will look at the Classic and retail night elf portrait and tell you that there's no difference, it's all nostalgia.
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u/Background_World_713 2d ago
Do even the people who use retail/HD models like the retail portraits? I don't think I've ever seen anyone defend them
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u/artnok 1d ago
Jesus Christ pick the race, make the character and move on with your life. How long are you looking at this shit for?
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u/BioDefault 1d ago
One look is enough to create that spark for anyone starting out, the new ones are generic and set a bad premise.
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u/disastrous_hyena759 2d ago
Maybe update them a bit, but also give the Arcane faction of the Blue Elf and the Shaman faction some unique portrait designs so they can look different and players can easily tell them apart. Right now, both are using either the male or female in-game model for a picture, and if they weren’t on different sides, no one would understand that they belong to opposing factions.
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u/dalerian 1d ago
On the priority list of things I want the devs to do, these icons that I see once per character are very low on my list.
But if they had time: I’d suggest having high definition hand drawn art that captures the spirit of the old images but doesn’t look like they only had 64 pixels to work with.
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u/Bloodshot89 1d ago
#FreeThePortraits
The old portraits are perfect.
The new ones look like total shit.
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u/EnGal_77 1d ago
No changes guys seeking no change in a game that is about changes. There is some study to do here I guess
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u/solarflare4646 1d ago
New art is fine for the purpose they serve. Old photos were just lazily cut from the zone splasharts anyways.
Blizz went back and polished up the things they didnt have time for in Vanilla. Thats exactly what I want from Forever.
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u/dontminor 14h ago
Just delete “Forever” part and name it Classic “Third time is the charm”. So, classic people can be happy.
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u/rynithon 14h ago
Yes please, BRING BACK THE OLD ones or improve the same design. The new ones are completely devoid of any emotion, expression and soul.
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u/AppleMelon95 2d ago
Dorian Bloodstone, the Ravenous
vs
Walter