r/classicwow • u/redlow0992 • 4h ago

Forever Beta Feedback Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

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u/MarzipanTechnical947 4h ago

Blizz also wants people out in the world leveling, not spamming SM or the same dungeon for 10 levels.

I disagree with the dungeon changes though. Spamming dungeons is boring as shit and only small portion of the population did it but at least was an option to those who hate questing.

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u/nicemace 2h ago

There is a middle ground between spamming dungeons and do it once. A lot of people sit in this middle ground.

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u/darkspy13 3h ago

I don't see anything wrong with dungeon spamming through a level range you don't like the quests in. As long as everyone in the party is the appropriate level. They even joked when they said they added an alternative for the SM level range. I didn't know at the time they were going to prevent me from spamming SM+New dungeon, and instead force me to quest.

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u/Gassenger 2h ago

Noooo people have to play in the specific way I like to play or they're just heckin whinerinooooos

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u/Gassenger 2h ago

Hooray! I get to compete with 20 different people for a quest mob that has 4 spawns! Goody goody gumdrops how fun!

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u/tsmftw76 4h ago

I don’t hate the principle but there’s got to be a middle ground either a debuff or a cap on daily dungeons. It feels super bad to run your friend through a wc that takes like an hour and a half with a newer group and get minimal exp.

Cap the dungeon to three lockouts a day or just have a two hour dungeon timer, or I’ve seen people suggest a stacking exp debuff. Also just make it so if anyone is 10 or more levels ahead of you then no one gets exp.

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u/Nessarra 2h ago

There are MMOs with daily and weekly dungeon caps. Felt bad.

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u/GreatBandito 1h ago

there doesn't though. if someone only wants to do dungeons just let them it isn't stopping you from not doing what you want

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u/JonBot5000 1h ago

No, it's only stopping them from progressing. You're either naive or being deliberately obtuse.

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u/GreatBandito 1h ago

how would people running dungeons stop you from progessing? you either A) want to run dungeons to progress so that is being solved or B) dont want to do dungeons, which you are unaffected by any changes to dungeons

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u/JonBot5000 45m ago

Ok, so you're being obtuse...

How hard is it to understand that people want to gain experience progression for the activities they enjoy doing pre-60?

There's a difference between people wanting to do dungeons purely for progression and people wanting to do activities they enjoy and not wanting their progression gimped because of it.

STOP BEING OBTUSE!

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u/GreatBandito 12m ago

how do you not experience progression....? you are getting new abilities, ranks of abilities, talent points and new gear as you level. Just because some people (i.e. Me) would rather be in dungeons the whole time does not mean that it stops other people from questing if thats how they want to progress. The fix is not nerfing one its just to have options for what to do. 1 will always be more optimized and if you want to follow the big blue arrow on auto run doing all the fetch quests thats also fine but i find it super boring and would rather be in a group. You're acting like if you don't make dungeons the worst possible experience then you won't be able to properly quest outside of them, that is crazy to me

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u/willium563 3h ago

People do that because questing during first few weeks of a launch is impossible if you are with the main population, only way to combat this is a ridiculous amount of layers which then makes the world feel dead anyway (retail launches now may as well be solo)

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u/FinalFate 3h ago

People won't be out in the world past level 14 though. You can very easily do one run of each dungeon for the quests and get more than enough xp to level.

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u/Mixels 2h ago

If that's their intention, they've done a crap job of it. Instead of dungeon dwelling for hours on end running dungeons on repeat, Blizzard has made it so you can speed run to 60 still by running dungeons exclusively by running each dungeon only once.

Blizzard should just accept that dungeons and raids are what some people like best about WoW and let us have it.

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u/Fragrant-Equipment43 2h ago

I wonder if thats actually possible. If so, thats 100% what I will do since hate questing and will play prot paly

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u/Tooshortimus 2h ago

Who cares what they "want" though... the game is played the way the players want to play it.

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u/GreatBandito 3h ago

it is way less boring then "walk 5 minutes into the hills and kill 10 of x mob 10 of y mob and 8 of z mob" then killing things yourself. I would much rather be healing or tanking or fighting a boss than killing trash alone like 1/2 the quests if not more

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u/Calm-Gazelle-6563 50m ago

With that change you wouldn’t be alone out there, that’s the point.

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u/Round-Butterscotch48 4h ago

People go where the loot is.

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u/G00SFRABA 1h ago

and most importantly, people who play a spec that sucks at solo questing.

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u/AdventurousBase221 1h ago

blizzard already had systems in place to do that though is the entire point.

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u/Cheesedude666 1h ago

Meanwhile out in the open world: 100s of people waiting around a camp of gnolls fighting over who gets the tags. Aggressive layering mixing up your entire world and all the potential friends and enemies on your way. Each zone is a fragmented part of the world. You phase in and out of instances all the time crossing borders, sailing routes.

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u/Yyoksetioxd 3h ago edited 3h ago

if they nerf the dungeon xp enough so running dungeons is not the meta, most of the people will be questing instead, but the people who hate questing will have an alternative. it's a win-win. Also I think you can interact way more with people doing dungeons than in the world, it's VERY strange to do several quests together, but it's not that weird running multiple dungeons together.

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u/Gassenger 2h ago

Why do people keep talking about dungeon running like it was faster? Open world questing has always been the quickest way to level. Rxp doesnt even route you to touch a dungeon unless you specifically tell it to

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u/itsablackhole 3h ago

and only small portion of the population did it

SoD phase 2 begs to differ. A good chunk definitely burned themselves out spamming SM to 40 and then blamed the devs for making them do this. Blizz answered with a flat 150% XP boost and Incursions in p3.

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u/datboijustin 3h ago

That had more to do with the phases causing gargantuan questing bottlenecks. For the first week or two it was barely even possible to quest to level because there were 50k players competing for 8 mobs spawns.

Edit: Also that specific level range is a very popular "farm dungeons" strategy because it's where questing could be rather sparce and spread out due to lack of quests in that level range + SM just happens to have 4 dungeons spanning roughly levels 28-42 ish.

Point being, it was a unique circumstance and we shouldn't be using it as a bogeyman to make sweeping changes to a system that has worked fine for the last 22 years.

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u/itsablackhole 2h ago edited 2h ago

oh I know why the players did it. I'm just saying that maybe the devs have the feeling of having to protect the players from themselves again if they fear Forever having a compareable quest competition at times. The OP I replied to said it's a ''small portion'' who resort to that kind of gameplay and I pointed out that if dungeons are that much better than questing it's more than just a ''small portion'' doing this.

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u/datboijustin 1h ago

It's never been an issue in any other iteration of WoW and there's absolutely no reason to think it would be this time either. The ONLY thing that caused that was the level cap gating of SoD which does not exist in this version of WoW.

It's fixing a problem that doesn't exist by creating new problems.

Personally, I don't really care, I'll be playing regardless and questing for 95% of the time with or without these changes, but it feels super bad for the players that want to level through dungeons and I am never in favor of a game company taking options away from players.

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u/vincentkun 3h ago

I don't know what % of the population would spam dungeons, but if I had to guess, it's probably closer to 50% than not.