What's an example of an NBA player that actually managed to change the narrative around themselves?

[u/tkinsey3]

So every year, over the summer and into the fall, NBA fans are flooded with posts about

• Luka being tan, in shape, and motivated
• Ben Simmons in the lab working on his 3PT shot
• Zion losing weight and being ripped
• AD being healthy

And so on, until midseason (or earlier) when all of those narratives fall flat and these players revert back to who that have mostly always been.

BUT - is there a good example (or two) of a player that has actually managed to successfully change the negative aura/narrative about themselves?

[u/MetroidsSuffering]

Steph Curry staying healthy is the most obvious one.

[u/tkinsey3 → u/MetroidsSuffering]

Was my first thought when posting this. Most younger fans don't even remember what his reputation was from 2009-2012 or so

[u/whtge8 → u/tkinsey3]

Remember how mad Warrior fans were for trading Monta Ellis instead of Curry…

[u/ITT_X → u/whtge8]

I remember how astute fans knew Monta was crap and the Warriors were making the right move

[u/frostedz → u/ITT_X]

“Astute fans” lmao… talk about revisionist history.

[u/Gladness2Sadness → u/ITT_X]

A lot of us soured on him after he lied about the moped incident.

[u/Background-Agent-854 → u/tkinsey3]

glass ankles

[u/mellted_cheese → u/tkinsey3]

He seemed like a lock for a sad “what could’ve been” career à la Brandon Roy

[u/Ok_Pineapple_Num → u/tkinsey3]

Obligatory link to this fascinating time capsule, the comment section on the Reddit post about his extension back in Oct 2012:  https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/12ejq1/curry_warriors_agree_to_four_year_44m_extension/ 

[u/Wazflame → u/Ok_Pineapple_Num]

Some absolute gems in there - one Warriors fan praying to the basketball gods that they’ve suffered enough lol, talk about prayers answered

It does strike me how most people who watched him felt there was a really good offensive player there, but was being held back by injuries

Obviously no one predicted him getting to this level, but it does show that even with the late bloomers like Shai, Giannis, Jokic, Steph they’re usually “good” NBA players right away/early in their careers

[u/OutsideOk1380 → u/tkinsey3]

This post makes me a.) feel old as shit and b.) reminds me the last time I watched espn is when they had those Steph curry meeting the curry chef commercials

[u/keepitbased → u/MetroidsSuffering]

And becoming a serviceable defender

[u/OutsideOk1380 → u/MetroidsSuffering]

He added muscle which strengthened everything. His whole life he was able to get by on just being better than the people he played against. He didn’t need to work on his body he just needed to work on his game.

Once he started getting paid, and I think his smaller second contract really reinforced this, he needed to add muscle so his body could keep up. He had all the talent but talent only got him so far. He needed to up his muscle mass to be able to maintain the rigors of the long season.

He never got super jacked or anything but he strengthened himself to the point where he was more than capable of being strong enough to withstand the regular season and a deep playoff run.

[u/runnerd81 → u/MetroidsSuffering]

Yeah the critics had a fair point at that time though. I thought his ankles would hold him back from a prolific career

[u/ItsKim_Jong_UwU → u/runnerd81]

One of my favorite Curry videos is a commercial where he reads his predraft scouting report after he won his second ring

[u/stankbucket → u/ItsKim_Jong_UwU]

People may consider the authors of that report morons, but it was accepted and accurate at the time and it is a big part of what drove him to become what he became.

[u/JaunxPatrol → u/MetroidsSuffering]

He was considered such an injury risk that for the first 3 Warriors Finals runs, until 2017, he was still on a contract getting paid $11M a year.

Honestly it's one of the reasons that team was so good, his low salary enabled more depth than they would have had otherwise

[u/Rizop]

Vince Carter- he had a bit of a reputation as an egotistical ball hogger; this was a bit unfair as he had some truly bad teams.

Transitioned to a role player and a 3 point specialist for the second half of his career. Really became a great teammate, leader and an example of professionalism in the lockeroom

[u/guitarpatch]

Dirk

[u/tkinsey3 → u/guitarpatch]

Good one; that 2011 run completely reversed his reputation as a Playoff dropper after 2006 and 2007

[u/chmcgrath1988 → u/tkinsey3]

I think that is an aspect of ring culture that isn't talked about enough; it just takes one championship to make up for a bunch of missed opportunities/playoff chokes.

[u/Krusty_Krab_Pussy → u/chmcgrath1988]

Kat is another example of this, on the wolves he was pretty disappointing especially against the Mavs but he's completely changed the narrative now. I mean shit a sizable amount of fans thought he wasn't a championship winning player

[u/No_Chip_3780 → u/Krusty_Krab_Pussy]

Just a year ago I'd read on here that its impossible to win with him cause he's too bad in defense

[u/bloodrider1914 → u/Krusty_Krab_Pussy]

He was hated last regular season too lol

[u/cwalking2 → u/Krusty_Krab_Pussy]

This is a halo effect from being on a winning team. I know KAT made meaningful contributions, but he was a 13ppg player in the finals, with 2 points scored on 1-for-7 shooting alongside 5 turnovers in the deciding game.

[u/DigBickMan68 → u/cwalking2]

Did you even watch any of the playoff games? Or are you just a box score watcher?

[u/kikimaru024 → u/chmcgrath1988]

LeBron won arguably the hardest ring of all, yet detractors will hold his Finals losses against him forever.

[u/chmcgrath1988 → u/kikimaru024]

I should have prefaced it that one championship erases all the playoff chokes... unless you're a Celtics, Laker, and/or LeBron

Jayson Tatum still gets the "You can't win a ring with him as your best player!" stink on him, from NBA fans and even some Celtics fans, despite him winning a ring as best player on the Celtics for most of the season cause Jaylen was the best player that postseason and/or the Celtics had an easy path to the Finals that year.

Also Lakers fans that consider LeBron's run a disappointment cause it "only" resulted in one ring (during the bubble season no less) but it's not hard to imagine how much worse franchise would be if LeBron decided to go somewhere else in 2018!

I might include KD in that category now that I think of it. Unless he wins another one, I think a lot of people will say "Yeah but he never won a championship, outside of Golden State" when he retires. Unlike other examples, I think he kind of brought that on himself though by jumping to Golden State when he did (and his leadership or lack thereof in Brooklyn and Phoenix) tbh.

[u/jd451 → u/chmcgrath1988]

Jaylen was the best player that postseason

I don't mean to kickstart an argument but Tatum led the team in points, rebounds and assists for the entire post-season (entering absolute legendary air in doing so) and also led the team in all 3 stats in the finals as well.

The anti-tatum rhetoric that began swirling before the post-season, which also increased in volume before the finals, clearly had a huge impact on the voting process.

I get that Jaylen Brown did a lockdown job on defence in the finals but Tatum was unquestionably the best player on that team. He's the only player to lead his team in such a manner and NOT win the mvp, bonkers to think about really.

[u/chmcgrath1988 → u/jd451]

100% agreed. The discourse around the Js has been so toxic since their first run to the Finals in 2022 that part of me wonders if the Celtics won't be better next season just because they won't have to worry about it.

Although now they're split up, maybe it'll be even worse. I'm just tired of it! I love both guys too, but people love idea it being a Shaq Vs Kobe like inner turmoil now split when it's clearly not!

[u/pirate-private → u/chmcgrath1988]

players will probably always give players like KD or Kobe a little more flowers than the average fan, because they are less hung up on narratives or stats, they care more about what a player can do on the court that no other player can do. with lebron however, I think due to the sheer volume of his body of work and the 2016 title, he's pretty much the goat right now if you ask around. funny bc "that one right there made me the best ever" does sound a little different after all these years. what he does or doesn't do in philly can only add to this. but of course the boomer cohorts being so large still skews the debate in favor of mj.

[u/gokjib → u/kikimaru024]

if you’re a legendary player one ring is enough to cement your legacy (Jokić, Giannis, etc)

if you have an argument to be the GOAT people will hold you to impossible standards

[u/Fit_Valuable7112 → u/tkinsey3]

Agree

[u/Ferbtastic → u/guitarpatch]

Yeah went from great player but choke artist to underdog with that dog in him. I wonder how different he would be viewed if he won 2006 but lost 2011.

[u/OutrageousQuantity12 → u/Ferbtastic]

Probably about the same. The 2011 loss would’ve come against the Heatles that were favored to win from the off season, so it wouldn’t really be held against Dirk

[u/UndercoverDimension → u/guitarpatch]

Before 2011, many were arguing that he was still an all timer. The ESPN narrative changed but a large subset outside that bubble saw Dirk for who he was. Webber I think is one who changed the narrative, he didn't have the greatest attitude, felt like wasted potential and I didn't think he would turn it around.

[u/derpydrewmcintyre]

Kyle Lowry didn't have a good rep before repairing his image in Canada, where he's now a franchise legend with a statue.

[u/bluetenthousand → u/derpydrewmcintyre]

That’s a great example!

[u/Early_Background6937 → u/derpydrewmcintyre]

He had a great rep as a quality fantasy pickup

[u/Wynona_Judd]

Zach Randolph was considered a big dummy and a losing player for years and years before he made it to Memphis and turned it around.

[u/Low-Lunch-7248 → u/Wynona_Judd]

From jailbreaker to blue collar

[u/lcsulla87gmail]

Dirk being a soft choker

[u/jakekerr → u/lcsulla87gmail]

I don't think he had a reputation of being a choker, which is why people leaned so hard on the "soft" part. The criticism was "soft euro" more than anything.

And it's interesting that he definitely changed not just his own narrative but the narrative of European players being "soft" by default.

[u/lcsulla87gmail → u/jakekerr]

07 was definitely talked about as a choke job. Won the mvp and couldn't get out of the first round.

[u/dennythedinosaur → u/lcsulla87gmail]

People also forget that the 2009-10 Mavs were the #2 seed and got knocked out in the first round.

So the Mavs weren't really taken seriously as contenders the following year and then Dirk (and his teammates) just went on that insane run to win the championship.

[u/lcsulla87gmail → u/dennythedinosaur]

From 06 to 11 was such a roller coaster

[u/No-Owl-6246 → u/lcsulla87gmail]

If this subreddit was around and in its current state during 2007 it would have went absolutely nuclear.

[u/lcsulla87gmail → u/No-Owl-6246]

The message boards were crazy back then

[u/TheL0stK1ng]

Karl Anthony Towns was a good, if unserious, player who wasn't an elite player. He was the best example of a guy who wasn't worth his max contract, but was so skilled and so hard to replace that you had to pay him anyway.

His play in the first two games of the finals reversed that, and I think most people think of him as a winner instead of the guy that once said his team (with a first round exit) had a better season than the Denver team that won the title that same year.

[u/Attentions_Bright12 → u/TheL0stK1ng]

KAT’s minor gaffe-type situations are more about the media being willing to distort things to draw clicks than they are about him. The guy has really been a good egg for his whole career, and somehow got miscast as “selfish my-own-numbers-first star” despite having been willing to bend his game for the team every. dang. season, even back in college.

Not a perfect player. Sure. He basically has obeyed the Patrick Ewing “keep it in the locker room” code when it came to moments like Jimmy Butler, and fans aren’t always sharp enough to recognize that.

[u/TheL0stK1ng → u/Attentions_Bright12]

I don't think the prevailing view of KAT was that he was selfish or hunting stats. He was just... Sort of like a friendly Labrador retriever that wasn't too bright and just kept knocking over stuff in the house. Great, super friendly, but would never be considered an attack dog.

Translating that analogy over to the NBA, he had a great rookie season and seemed really sharp. After that, the missteps started with him saying he was the best big shooter to ever play (not too much heat for that at first, got worse with every bad season), him talking about him and D Russ being costars, the Denver comment that is seared into my brain, etc.

He was just goofy, and once the team immediately shifted into a contender with Ant's ascension, people wrote him off as an unserious player. His constant foul trouble and bad D early-mid way through his career enforced that.

But really KAT was in a spot that didn't support his style. He needed a serious cast around him to keep him focused and diminish his bad habits. The Knicks did that in spades, and they turned a lab into a conditional rotweiler.

[u/abenamer → u/TheL0stK1ng]

Mike Brown was much more instrumental in rehabbing KAT. Warriors-style offens schemes meant less pick and roll and more motion which worked better for KAT since it meant that other teams couldn't simply double or blitz him.

[u/chicu111 → u/TheL0stK1ng]

They 100% would not have won without him and his defense on Wemby. That is the biggest impact imo. Scoring is easy and natural in this era. But nullifying someone like Wemby is incredibly difficult

[u/Foi_]

wiggins and aaron gordon were miscast as future #1 options but in reality were superstar role players akin to guys like OG and just thinking of them that way changed the perception of them.

[u/mouseman1011 → u/Foi_]

Aaron Gordon is an excellent example. He drove Orlando fans absolutely nuts when we realized before he seemingly did that he wasn’t a real first option. I’m so happy with the role he discovered in Denver. I wish he’d had the chance sooner, because it seems like his hammy is cooked.

[u/Gueropantalones → u/mouseman1011]

Eh won a championship

[u/RadWalk → u/Gueropantalones]

AG shirtless on the streets of Denver after the win, definitely beloved forever there

[u/snek-jazz → u/mouseman1011]

the lack of understanding that "man jump high" is not a guarantee of anything continues to amuse me.

[u/RathOfMan49 → u/Foi_]

Wiggins is frustrating because he clearly showed he could rebound and be a #2 on a title contender like in ‘22. Then he got paid a bit, and decided to just go back to being average again 🤷‍♂️

[u/goingtothegreek → u/RathOfMan49]

Yeah Wiggins doesn’t stand on the same ground as AG imo. His one great season showed his real ability, the man just never cared enough about playing winning basketball

[u/Personal_End9975 → u/goingtothegreek]

imo his father being sick and dying threw him off his game for 2 years. he’s a human being and the person that showed him to love basketball died. in his last season with us he was back to normal and winning us games

[u/RufiosBrotherKev → u/goingtothegreek]

coast, coast, coast, lock in for a few months to secure the bag, back to coast... 

he just like me fr

[u/timberwolvesguy → u/goingtothegreek]

But he promised Glen Taylor he was gonna try super hard after signing the max! /s

[u/Seraphin_Lampion → u/RathOfMan49]

To be honest, that's kinda why he never became a #1 in the first place though.

[u/Smok3dSalmon → u/Foi_]

Successfully lowered expectations 

[u/zaepoo → u/Foi_]

Nah, Wiggins is still a failed number 1 option. Warriors run doesn't change that. He didn't get the most out of his talent. AG never had the chops to be a first option, but Wiggins has the talent

[u/TGBooks]

KAT, by winning a championship, and by how he helped his team win it.

[u/curva3 → u/TGBooks]

KAT

IMO his narrative changed a bit when he defended Jokic very well 1 on 1 in the playoffs. He immediately lost the "soft" rep

[u/suckitnewtabs → u/curva3]

It should have, and did so for open-minded people who were paying attention, but most casual fans still considered him soft until he actually got the chip.

[u/adamsauce → u/curva3]

He was always considered a terrible defensive player in the NBA, but he’s been the best Jokic defender. Wolves even had the DPOY guard a different player.

[u/TrashDonut → u/adamsauce]

Most teams take their center off of Jokic in the playoffs. That’s a Jokic thing, not a KAT thing.

[u/YSLAnunoby → u/TrashDonut]

In this case was both because KAT was good enough as a perimeter offensive player while being big and having the mobility he has where they confined his defensive role to being on Jokic while they had Rudy staying at the rim to help on Jokic or Murray drives when needed and deter the AG lob outlet. Few players have that size and strength with the shooting he has to try running double bigs in addition to Rudy being the best anchor big of his era

[u/Efficient_Art_1144 → u/TGBooks]

Just finished reading the athletic article about him and then saw this post.

[u/samurairocketshark]

Brook Lopez a championship starter who is now known for elite defense and timely threes used to be a more traditional offensive center that was a defensive sieve

[u/doonerlxx]

Kyle Lowry

[u/jimmyre10 → u/doonerlxx]

Good one. Nobody was talking about how big of a dump truck he had early on in his career. It wasn’t until later on that people started noticing

[u/TheCrookedKnight → u/jimmyre10]

Just goes to show that hindsight is 20/20

[u/ValarMorghulis300 → u/doonerlxx]

Here for this comment. The narrative was that he had attitude issues and wasn’t coach-able.

[u/truantplesiosaur → u/doonerlxx]

Yeah, went from a locker room problem (and pretty mid player on the court) in Memphis and Houston to being an incredible leader, 6x all-star, reputation as a guy who makes all the little winning plays on the court, had the 7th-highest win shares of any player in the NBA in the 2010s, and second-best player on a championship team. He is a true winner.

[u/ItsKim_Jong_UwU]

Shaun Livingston: entered the league straight out of high school, was one of the most hyped players in a draft class that included Dwight Howard, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, and Al Jefferson (ranked no.2, taken with the 4th pick). He missed 101 out of 264 NBA games in his first three seasons, and when he was available he averaged 6.3 points. After a devastating knee injury he was told he'd may have to have the leg amputated. He managed to come back, played for 5 different teams in a 4 year span, before landing with the Warriors, where he became a key bench player in a dynasty before retiring.

[u/pkpy1005 → u/ItsKim_Jong_UwU]

For real, it was the most devastating injury you can ever see, but he managed to carve out a legitimate 15 year career in the NBA. This required A LOT of resiliance. As an Illini fan, I was salty when he chose Duke over Illinois (which was rendered moot when he declared for the draft), but nothing but respect.

[u/trippysmurf]

Charles Barkley

Few of us were around when he was a rookie, but he was the number 5 draft pick, entered camp close to 300 lbs, and wasn't getting much minutes his first season.

"I pulled Moses aside and asked him, 'Why am I not playing more?'" Barkley recalled on Sunday.

Malone turned, looked him up and down and declared, "You're fat and you're lazy, that's why. You can't play basketball if you're not in shape."

Fast forward, he was All-Rookie first team, and a Hall of Fame career. 

[u/zggystardust71 → u/trippysmurf]

Moses was the real deal. Mentored guys and didn't pull any punches.

[u/Pimpdaddyfrogface → u/trippysmurf]

Good one. Also his rep as a toxic player. It didn't totally go away but his rep went from being a total asshole in Philly, to just being a guy who speaks his mind in Phoenix.

[u/TylerDurdensAlterEgo → u/trippysmurf]

I was going to say this too, but also because he was kind of a Draymond (not THAT bad), but in retirement he became a very likeable person

[u/KingRagerBlade]

JaVale McGee lowkey

[u/AskReeves22 → u/KingRagerBlade]

I would have never predicted his career being this long after the Shaqtin days on the Bullets.

[u/KingRagerBlade → u/AskReeves22]

Fr back to back rings and a gold medal too playing significant roles is goated

[u/CrodieFoster]

Jason Kidd becoming a deep threat late in his career

[u/TheVaniloquence → u/CrodieFoster]

Going from “Ason Kidd” to shooting over 40% from 3 as a role player on a championship team was pretty wild

[u/enyinna7]

Andre Drummond has rebuilt the narrative around himself by being pretty humble and honest about how his approach needed to change. Went from All-NBA, to nearly out of the league, and now a solid rotation big and occasional starter

[u/lumpiawrappers → u/enyinna7]

Three pointer shooter too

[u/BiGgmoney91]

Wiggins on the 2022 GSW championship team

[u/pepe-_silvia]

Chauncey

[u/Attentions_Bright12 → u/pepe-_silvia]

Pretty good example of the player who, after being drafted high, couldn’t catch on — until he finally got to stable situations in Minnesota and Detroit and redeemed himself.

… And then last fall it all fell out from under him.

[u/jedvraider150 → u/pepe-_silvia]

Surprised I had to scroll so far down to see this. But yeah, was on his way to becoming a disappointment before being traded to Detroit and leading them to a championship. Dominated the East too for a good 3-4 years

[u/thy_armageddon]

All it took was a global outbreak for John Stockton to let everyone know he was actually a nutjob the entire time.

[u/overdrivegto → u/thy_armageddon]

I was gonna say Karl Malone who had a reputation as a great player who just couldn’t get it done. Playoff choker. And he changed his narrative to a pedophile and a monster who should be in prison.

Go Jazz!

[u/ghostfaced → u/thy_armageddon]

Yeah before that he was just a dirty little guy

[u/Ronnie_Pudding → u/thy_armageddon]

I like this one.

[u/Ok_Acadia2631]

Zach Randolph - although the narrative of him being a bad dude was more about Portland media than reality.

[u/Goosentra → u/Ok_Acadia2631]

This is a great one. I and the city of Memphis absolutely adore ZBo

[u/FunctioningPyscho → u/Goosentra]

He’s a legend here.

[u/dontgetitwisted_fr → u/Ok_Acadia2631]

I mean there was the dog fighting thing with Qyntel Woods

They didnt make it up 

[u/night__daze → u/Ok_Acadia2631]

That Jail Blazers squad was wild, lol

[u/TommTTT]

Pascal Siakam went from energy big man off the bench to max player.

[u/Smok3dSalmon → u/TommTTT]

Same with James Harden. 6th man at OKC to MVP

[u/supacatkid → u/Smok3dSalmon]

This isn’t really an accurate comparison. He was only 6th man at OKC because they had Russ and KD. When he went to Houston there was no narrative to change, him becoming an MVP level player was what everyone expected.

[u/JoeyJoeJoeShabadooSr]

Pau Gasol was considered soft the first time the Celtics played the Lakers in the finals. He more than held his own in the 2010 rematch.

[u/BrickOk67]

Kids don't remember a young Chris Webber. Fighting with coaching staff on his first two teams, then goes to Sacramento and turns it around. Has a jersey in the rafters and is now in the hall fame.

[u/creativeusername9275]

I thought Kelly Oubre was just the garbage shot chucker archetype but he really grew into a glue guy who plays with a ton of heart and effort that I'm sad to see go.

[u/Nameless_Snoo → u/creativeusername9275]

Came to say Oubre.

[u/curva3]

KAT being a lazy and soft player.

[u/Bendrake]

Steph was incredibly injury prone and was viewed as unreliable because of it.

At one time, the Warriors were between keeping him or Monta Ellis.

[u/ajb228 → u/Bendrake]

Same as Kevon Looney.  Loon was injury prone during the dynasty days and became one of the most reliable Warrior on his time there when KD left and got his hip fixed.

The '22 title run cemented it.

[u/Aggressive_Will_7703 → u/Bendrake]

The bucks rejecting the Curry for Bogut trade after the physical and getting Ellis instead is not talked about enough as one of the biggest fumbles in history.

[u/PatternMoney5884]

The first one that came to my mind is KAT. That dude was getting dogged his entire career, but ended up being a big reason why the Knicks won the title.

I guess Dirk would be the other guy who rehabilitated his legacy.

[u/memphisfinest80]

Dirk. He was considered soft for years.

[u/BurnerAccountforAss → u/memphisfinest80]

Was seen as a Harden-esque playoff dropper until 2011, then had one of the best championship runs of all-time

Legend

[u/internet__sloth]

Ron Artest, from being undisciplined and having anger issues, to being coachable and poised

[u/nowhathappenedwas → u/internet__sloth]

When was this?

Lakers fans liked to pretend that was true, but MWP kept doing the same violent, stupid shit that Artest did.

The Harden incident is the most infamous, but he was also suspended in the playoffs for hitting JJ Barea in the face.

[u/Fit_Valuable7112 → u/internet__sloth]

He even got a new name to go with the personality

[u/AffectionatePoet5033 → u/Fit_Valuable7112]

And he also made a new friend with the pandas!

[u/88cowboy → u/internet__sloth]

Other than the James Harden elbow lol

[u/NeverNotOnceEver]

KAT did a lot for his narrative

[u/basketbowls]

Zach Randolph becoming a grizzlies legend

[u/HiImWallaceShawn]

Karl Towns

Andrew Wiggins

Kyle Lowry was a prominent playoff choker then won a title.

Ron Harper went from a high volume “good stats bad team” guy on the clippers, to an elite perimeter defender and defensive pillar of the bulls second 3 peat.

[u/claptrap23]

Javale McGee.

Was clowned bc of shaq and some boneheaded plays on the wizards. But he was a key piece in several championship teams

[u/i-piss-excellence32]

Kat isn’t a winner and is soft

[u/jackoftrades002]

D’Angelo Russel and finally reaching his true potential as an all-star on the Nets to finally signing with the Shanghai Sharks where his true potential is realized.

[u/kinjiru_]

Andrew Wggins. Joined golden state and was the 2nd best player in the Finals against the J’s and Boston. Became an elite defender and locked down both Luka and Tatum in that run.

[u/Even_Courage_1422]

Zach Randolph. Young Z-Bo had an immature shit head rep in Portland, then became a respected vet and kind of the core of the grit n grind era in Memphis where fans loved him.

[u/TiddiesAnonymous]

Julius Randle is constantly in flux, can he change the narrative again?

[u/YerrrKnicks → u/TiddiesAnonymous]

If constantly changing the narrative is his default... Is he really ever, changing the narrative? 🤔

[u/FitCap581]

The narrative around Dirk being a playoff choker before 2011

[u/derpydrewmcintyre]

The Nuggets had to think hard between nurkic and jokic.

[u/ninetydeuce]

KAT not being a winning player and terrible defensively.

Wiggins not being one of your three best players to win a championship.

Brunson being too small to carry a team to a championship (this might be the biggest one because of Becky Hammon's comments and how it took a life of its own).

Ja Morant, LaMelo Ball & Trae Young being the future superstars and faces of this league (remember their apperance during the NBA 75 ceremony at the All-Star Game?)

[u/B-Rayy06]

Are people here too young to remember people said that LeBron couldn’t win?

People were saying a top 1/2 (I don’t care where you put him) wasn’t able to win. He has 4 championships

[u/justanotherdude32 → u/B-Rayy06]

I miss the days of LeBron no ring jokes

[u/11oydchristmas → u/justanotherdude32]

I tried calling LeBron and it went straight to voicemail. No rings.

He was getting dunked on after the first year with the Heat because he left the Cavs to win rings (not 4, not 5…) and was a ghost against the Mavs in 2011. Obviously he was able to get it done and change the narrative completely

[u/SecondBurialSyte → u/B-Rayy06]

At least at the barbershop, those same people are still saying he can't win after 4 rings lol.

[u/XombieRx]

Aaron Gordon learning how to shoot 3s

[u/20BeersDeep]

Jimmy found a way to change his view as an alpha playoff riser to a injury prone prima donna

[u/d4nowar]

Jr Smith not being a team player, his late career on the Cavs was really solid.

[u/jemstone_croc]

Dirk

[u/DickStartMyFart]

Chris Anderson.

[u/ljrubbo]

Not as dramatic as some of the other examples, but Carmelo had a mini-renaissance in Portland where he became a strong team player and was able to contribute through high percentage post plays. There was a brief moment where people thought he could be a big supporting piece to a good team versus the heliocentric player he was before.

[u/whyidoevenbother]

Aaron Gordon

[u/begoodformegirl]

Javale Mcgee's perception went from NBA clown to serviceable big man after winning that championship. Although some people still only associate him with those Shaqtin a Fool segments.

[u/mysterowl]

NAW is an incredible example.

[u/ksn0vaN7]

JaVale McGee. After the whole thing with Shaqtin reached a boiling point and he landed on the Warriors, I think his Shaqtin image was reversed sort of. He became a solid piece on 2 championship teams.

[u/fromfrodotogollum]

Chris Paul in okc. People were acting like he was washed after the rockets and going there and pushing them to the playoffs added another 6 or 7 years to his career

[u/Jar1517]

I remember a brief time Wally Szczerbiak said Haliburton was a fake superstar. Wally walked backed the word later on calling him a superstar.

Edit: sorry for wording; morning coffee is absent

[u/TorpidWalloper → u/Jar1517]

Knicks fan who remembers him saying that in real time pregame, postgame, or whenever time of the game he said it, and it proved to me for the 900th different time that Wally is a fucking idiot.

[u/NoLimitSoldier31 → u/Jar1517]

Wally thought he was a superstar & KG was a fake superstar

[u/Relevant-Magician49]

DeMarre Carroll. Nicknamed the junkyard dog at Missouri for his toughness and grit. Becomes a very good shooter and more of a finesse player in the league

[u/agentb00th]

Jason Kidds shooting got way better

[u/rickyvsheisenberg]

Dirks’ chapter in the Book of Basketball is crazy to read in hindsight.

[u/Efficient_Art_1144]

Paul Pierce getting a ring and a FMVP

[u/shoulda_been_gone]

Kyle Lowry after getting to Toronto

[u/Delicious_Run_557]

Dirk was 💯% too soft... Until he wasn't.

[u/Bobblefighterman]

Brook Lopez went from a standard good traditional big man on the Nets to one of the main elite deep shooting big men ever.

[u/astarisaslave]

Jason Kidd being called Ason when he entered the league because he had no "j"

Then retired as one of the all time leaders in 3 points made

[u/rendingale]

Lebron can't shoot and only drives, his game wont age well.. well, maybe in. More years lol

[u/thinlion01]

Javale McGee

[u/vbsteez]

Devin Booker was a good-stats bad team guy, and then made the finals and was a glue guy starter for the Olympic team.

Proven competitor and winner, willing to adapt and sacrifice.

[u/ReaderRambler2021]

Marcus Smart…pretty sure he was considered just a 1 dimensional defensive guard early in his career but now he’s all that + a respected veteran leader.

[u/chicu111]

Kawhi going from board man to money man

[u/Own-Fondant2949]

Karl Malone still being recognized by the NBA instead of being blackballed for raping a 13 year old is probably the greatest example of someone able to change the narrative around themselves.

[u/entropy14]

Jordan had a reputation as a ball hog who couldn’t win a title

LeBron had a reputation of folding under the pressure

[u/YouWasATerletBaby]

Kobe was always extremely corny and a sexual predator, who somehow rehabbed his image

[u/MatthewTheShapeShftr]

Dillon Brooks went from a toxic villain who was basically thought to be out of the league to a valued asset.

[u/mr_mope → u/MatthewTheShapeShftr]

I don’t think anything about him has changed. He was always viewed that way in Memphis, but it was more can we live with the downsides to his game/decision making. I think the jury is still out on whether there’s anything more to his play, as nice a story the suns were for a little bit last year.

[u/TrueDeadBling]

I feel like Carmelo sort of did for a little while there. He always had a rep of being a bit of a selfish player and came across as a hard guy to coach, and I think that the "Hoodie Melo" incident at a press conference with the Thunder (it may have been, please correct me if I'm wrong) when he laughed off suggestions about coming off the bench really cemented in people's minds that he was selfish and unwilling to sacrifice to win a ring.

I think he really adjusted his attitude around coming off the bench after that messy end in Houston before his time at Portland and the Lakers. His second year at the Blazers, he only started 3 games because of injuries. Same story in his final year when he was at the Lakers.

He also recently came out to say that he wasn't sure why he went 15 or so months without being offered a contract before he signed with Portland, so I'm not sure if he took a hit from that or not, but it didn't really seem like a very self aware moment for him.

[u/Dddddddfried]

I'm not sure this is what you're looking for, but it would have been hard to imagine how beloved Vince Carter was by the end of his career back when he was quitting on Toronto

[u/MddlingAges]

Lebron is always the answer. He wasn't a good shooter when he entered the league. And he couldn't win the big one.

It was so long ago now, of course, it's completely forgotten about.

[u/TiddiesAnonymous → u/MddlingAges]

Ason Kidd

[u/chmcgrath1988 → u/MddlingAges]

There's still goofs that LeBron hasn't won enough big ones, but I guess (or hope) most people know at this point, the issues are more with his detractors than him.

There's literally nothing LeBron could have done to have shut up a lot of his detractors. He could have won more championships as Russell, more MVPs as Kareem, and more Finals MVPs than Jordan and some bozos would be saying "Yeah but..."

[u/ProfArva]

Michael Jordan. He went from a guy considered to be a dunker who only cared about scoring and couldn't win to the GOAT.

[u/Ok-Effort1192]

Peyton Watson recently in how him sitting out, was negotiating, and partying throughout summer with MPJ was perceived, then the switch once news of how Nuggets handled his injury came out.

[u/TheApacheBobcat]

Andrew Wiggins championship season with Golden State. I think he would have been seen as a bust without it.

[u/mavllvin]

Stephon Marbury. Couldn't even get a NBA contract anymore with his reputation. Went to play in China and became a legend

[u/king_Geedorah_]

JaVale McGee and Shaqtin

[u/mouseman1011]

Norm Powell! People thought he had potential in Toronto and Portland, but he never quite realized it. Then he goes to the Clippers and the Heat, and suddenly he’s a reliable bucket getter.

[u/TheDylster74]

Vince Carter.

[u/2outof3dukes]

Kawai

[u/WillyTRibbs]

I'm actually surprised not to see LeBron on here, considering the Decision/first Finals lost with the Heat/whole run in Miami kind of soured the perception on him broadly as a guy that didn't have the same competitive drive as other greats, couldn't be a true alpha and needed someone to defer to, etc.

2016 changed a lot. He'll always have his haters. But going up against a superior team, and going down 3-1 in the final, and then playing 3 games of utter god-tier basketball for everyone to see really got people to come around on him. Even as a lifelong Jordan fan - he was my hero growing up - games 5 & 6 in that series were the first time I said to myself "Shit...maybe he is better", and I think many people had a similar revelation/change in perception during that series.

[u/Signal_Low3017]

Chauncey!

[u/Moneyshot_ITF]

Ben Simmons was a good basketball player his rookie year

[u/noxtrarice]

Dirk.

[u/burns_before_reading]

KAT

[u/bananajunior3000]

Ason Kidd becoming a good three point shooter really changed the narrative about him

[u/Low-Lunch-7248]

Zach Randolph

[u/OutsideOk1380]

Karl Anthony towns

[u/JJiggy13]

Charles Barkley. The man went from "I'm not a role model" to becoming an a great example of what s man should be.

[u/Madabord]

NAW. Went from a throw in trade piece in Utah to a starter in Minnesota to a Star in Atlanta.

[u/Pete_Roses_bookie]

Kyle Lowry as a Rocket vs. Kyle Lowry as a Raptor. 

[u/champloojay]

Javale McGee

[u/No-Cartoonist-4849]

Javale McGee

[u/Evening_Classic_4947]

no one thought Sean Livingston was gonna be a key contributor to a title winner after his injury