Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

[u/redlow0992]

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

[u/ABDLTA]

They should have just done the "once per day" rule that HC currently has

[u/Nrgte → u/ABDLTA]

No they shouldn't have done anything. It was never a problem.

The current solution has a myriad of issues.

1. Like op mentioned, mobs that are not part of a quest get skipped. Every dungeon run will be a speedrun.
2. There are certain quests that just don't drop enough for the whole group, meaning you either have to abandon it or go again. Cabinets in Gnomeregan or Twilight Talismans in BFD come to mind. This will feel terrible especially for longer dungoens.
3. The friend or guildie has already done the dungeon and would like to help to complete the group. Well now it's a waste of time.
4. People will just get the items they need and then abandon the group.
5. People will just not run fringe dungeons with few quests anymore. Good luck finding an SFK group on Alliance. It's fine now in the beta because 20 is max level, but on launch people will not waste their time with this.

If they really really want to prevent boosting, the correct move is to just not give XP if a player is part of the group who's outside of the dungeons level bracket.

Besides, it's not like boosting in the open world is not a perfectly fine alternative.

[u/Sykotron → u/Nrgte]

The friend or guildie has already done the dungeon and would like to help to complete the group. Well now it's a waste of time.

I kind of understand where you're coming from, but I feel like this point drives home the problem with it. Spending time with friends is not a waste of time and needs to be the goal with some fun gameplay to share.

If I was just grouping up with complete randoms in the real world just to accomplish a very specific goal without getting to know them... then yeah, they're not gonna care about anything but that goal and the same applies to a game this large.

[u/Nrgte → u/Sykotron]

My wording wasn't very good, my apologies. It's not a waste of time in that sense, but it just won't feel as good for the helper (nor the one asking for help). People can justify helping more easily if they get a small reward. And more importantly, people won't feel guilty for asking.

Gameplay mechanics are supposed to reward social behavior. Blizzards implementation is doing the opposite is my point.

[u/Sykotron → u/Nrgte]

I probably over stressed the importance of the social aspect of just hanging out with people, but yeah, the game play should reward helpers too. I don't want to just grind dungeons for XP, but my normal way to play is negatively impacted by the run itself not really rewarding much XP with Blizzard's current plans.

Vanilla was a different time because most of us weren't chasing BiS and the world was new to explore, but I feel like I remember the joy of the journey of traveling all over Azeroth to help my friends without any in-game reward for myself.

I wish voice chat wasn't so toxic so that you could easily play the game and socialize, but it's nigh impossible to chat and keep up the pace in a group so I don't really know how to support the social aspects well.

[u/Nrgte → u/Sykotron]

Yeah I just want to not feel terrible if I miss a couple of quest items during the first run. Now it incentivises me to click quest items before my team mates to make sure I finish within 1 run.

Additionally not every faction has a enough quests for every dungeon. SFK as Alliance was always one of my highlights but it'll be dead on release because there are no quests for Alliance.

[u/Kaleph4 → u/Nrgte]

there is still a bunch of loot you prob didn't get in the first run. people run UBRS countless of times without any exp gain as well. they did it while almost full T1/T2 equipped. there are reasons to run DM a second time as well

[u/lifeloverFPS → u/Kaleph4]

UBRS is a terrible example because by the time you are running it you have no need for xp anymore. You will almost never do a dungeon more than once during leveling with the current system, unless it has prebis/a relevant chase item.

[u/Deity_Majora → u/Kaleph4]

But it's not worth it to stop leveling to chase that piece of gear when the chance is the only thing you get out of it. Before it was always at least worth it because of the exp with the chance of loot.