Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

[u/redlow0992]

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

[u/ConniesCurse]

if people are only doing dungeons a single time people won't be running them enough to actually know the skips. Metas like skipping develop because people have to run content a billion times. I think this problem is overblown.

Skipping will not really be worth the effort when you only have to do the dungeon a single time.

[u/Insidious_Bagel → u/ConniesCurse]

You are failing to account for the fact that forever encourages you to level multiple characters for legacy talent points.

This is also not accounting for dungeons 55+ where people will be running multiple times for the gear drops.

Also speaking from personal experience most people also run the dungeon around 2-3 times to snag a few gear drops. I imagine this will be even more common now that they are nerfing the quest rewards

This is absolutely a problem and needs to be addressed. Mt first run of RoL was glorious with the group exploring and figuring out where to go. By the third day of beta the runs turned into chuds pinging the optimal route and getting annoyed when people pulled extra packs

[u/ConniesCurse → u/Insidious_Bagel]

This is also not accounting for dungeons 55+ where people will be running multiple times for the gear drops.

that's not relevant to this discussion because that's gonna happen either way, has nothing to do with exp changes.

Even if it does happen to some extent, I would prefer the dungeon changes stay as they are personally. Some people are going to be toxic in dungeons no matter what you do. I really enjoy doing a single run and getting a fat exp payday for it, the potential downsides to me, are easily worth it.

Another reason I think people will not be skipping much, especially during the launch period, is that failed skips is one of the #1 ways to wipe in a dungeon.

[u/Dunkelz → u/ConniesCurse]

that's not relevant to this discussion because that's gonna happen either way, has nothing to do with exp changes.

That's why it's relevant lmao. It counters the argument of "no one will do dungeons more than once" by pointing out they will in higher dungeons.

[u/Seranta → u/Dunkelz]

He didn't say that. He said metas won't develop when people only do the dungeon once. That's the entire premise of his argument. Ergo you're arguing about something entirely else, which is irrelevant.

[u/Eyelemon → u/Insidious_Bagel]

Skip tech is rendered useless by dungeon quests that specify “kill 10 of this kind of named mob”. Plenty of clever ways to keep people doing the actual content when the quests award the lion’s share of the XP.

If you’re loot hunting, a few skips seem reasonable.

[u/Mend1cant → u/Eyelemon]

Plus, if you’re loot hunting, your peers are out-leveling you. 

[u/GreatBandito → u/Eyelemon]

only if you aren't routing to kill the right amount. This only works if there are like the exact amount of the enemies needed then even then it probably would be more optimized to only kill half twice or something like that could even be kill the first one and reset instead.

[u/LimbonicArt03 → u/Eyelemon]

If you’re loot hunting, a few skips seem reasonable.

Well, that's not really the case in dungeons like BRD where the standard arena+emperor skip runs end up skipping entire bosses... which is where a shitload of great +healing preraid gear drops

[u/Eyelemon → u/LimbonicArt03]

That’s true. But BRD is massive and was kinda designed for boss skipping. It’s certainly not a typically designed dungeon.

[u/lolercoptercrash → u/ConniesCurse]

Not knowing the dungeons is a problem.

Dungeons are my favorite part of the game. I won't learn shit about their mechanics if I do them once and then move on. I actually enjoyed learning how to clear the dungeons, telling people to slow down in certain spots, etc. it was fun to learn.

Now it's just an easy way to get 1.5 level of xp. Basically full circle back to boosting.

[u/TwinLettuce → u/ConniesCurse]

Yeah I feel like I’m going crazy when I see people talking about a mob-skipping meta when we’re playing a beta capped at level 20. Even if dungeon xp was exactly the same as before, you’d still be getting people wanting to skip mobs because they’re already level capped or they’re just farming for gear because the cap is so low and they want to go fast.

Even with the beta having a bunch of players right now, it’s no where near the amount we’ll see at launch and it’s much more likely you’ll encounter someone wanting to speedrun/skip during the beta, compared to the loads of casual/relaxed players that will actually play at launch.

[u/ConniesCurse → u/TwinLettuce]

Yea one thing I think a lot of people fail to realize is that wow forever will be getting big numbers, like classic 2019 numbers, most of those people fell off of original classic within a few months, and most of them will again, but a large portion of the playbase during the first year at least will not be people who know everything there is to know about the game already, there will be a lot of casuals.

[u/Esoteric_platypus → u/ConniesCurse]

I agree with this take. I think it’s fine as-is. It rewards more knowledgeable (read: have played longer) the ability to maximize xp/hr by just skipping to bosses doing quests and being done. Certainly many people will do that.

There’s also a community who, if they know the “most optimal” is doing a dungeon once, will just say fuck it and clear the whole dungeon anyways, and then the lesser per-mob xp is offset by just larger volume of npcs cleared.

Also for that middle ground approach, the folks chasing specific drops will keep running it regardless of xp, because they want a certain item.