Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

[u/redlow0992]

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

[u/Neat-Thanks7092]

Easy solution: if the mob is grey to any player in the party, nobody gets xp for that mob

[u/Rizyli → u/Neat-Thanks7092]

This is how it works in hardcore. Not only.that, but you cant dungeon with 60s at all while leveling.

[u/Ashleynn → u/Rizyli]

Yes no helping friends. Level 60's cant be fraternizing with the dirty low levels.

Look I dont care what HC does, that as a rule set can have what ever janky rules it wants. Can we stop trying to make the normal game worse for everyone just because you dont like how other people choose to play?

[u/Easy_Effective_6394 → u/Ashleynn]

It stops boosting. It’s worth it

[u/Gassenger → u/Easy_Effective_6394]

Lmao there are so many better ways to stop boosting, and there are already people who are boosting even in the beta for rmt.

[u/Yeti90 → u/Ashleynn]

You see, "choose to play" is an argument often made, sure I agree but once meta wh*res establish a certain meta there is basically no room for other styles of playing the game anymore, which leads to no new players which leads to the game dying. If you want a healthy population you may need to sacrifice some freedom. Unwritten rules enforced by a hivemind lead by minmax efficiency culture, who treat the game as if it was some lean production facility, that needs to deliver their target KPIs can lead to a forced gamestyle for everyone else. So we might as well force the gamestyle with some guide rails set by the developers.

[u/Ashleynn → u/Yeti90]

"PLAY HOW I WANT YOU TO PLAY!!!!!"

Yet you sit here thinking you're any different from the "meta whores." You want to force people into playing how you think they should be playing. No one is forcing you to follow a meta. No one is forcing you to race to 60, or dungeon spam if you want to quest, or buying boosts for your 6th alt if you don't want to. Nothing is forced on you. The only people here trying to force anyone to do anything are the ones who belive people need to "sacrifice some freedom."

[u/NotRelatedBitch → u/Ashleynn]

Tonedeaf take. Let’s say the way I want to play the game is with a lot of PvP in STV like back in the good ole days - this is just an example, there are 1.000.000 cases - how can I do that when all the other players go in a dungeon and turn on Netflix?

How can I focus on my herbalism profession when all the Lotus are taken by tauren bots?

How can I get into Molten Core when the raidleader decided that Shadow Priest is bad? I can choose to play a shadow priest even if it isn’t meta, free will is nice, but then I have to forego a lot of social opportunity and content because of a meta.

How other players play and perceive correct play directly influences your allowed play patterns. This is not a single player game.

[u/Ashleynn → u/NotRelatedBitch]

Let’s say the way I want to play the game is with a lot of PvP in STV like back in the good ole days

You mean ganking and corpse camping players 20 levels lower than you. I played on a PvP server in vanilla, several of them. I know what wPvP actually is. Is not what you all try to sell it off as.

How can I focus on my herbalism profession when all the Lotus are taken by tauren bots?

The fuck does this have to do with people running dungeons, or players in general? This is completely separate issue.

How can I get into Molten Core when the raidleader decided that Shadow Priest is bad?

Make your own raid group, or find a raid leader willing to drag along dead weight. No one decided Shadow Priest was bad. The devlopers made it bad, like really, really bad. No one is going to willingly sandbag their group to bring a spec that can't do it's job. Thats got nothing to do with the players and everything to do with the balance team actually doing their job.

[u/Charlotta23 → u/Ashleynn]

Too bad. Enjoy WoW Forever.

[u/Several-Video-272 → u/Ashleynn]

jesus christ some of you people like actually really need to touch grass holyy

[u/Ashleynn → u/Several-Video-272]

I'm not the one trying to dictate how others interact with the game. I want people to be able to choose how to do that.

[u/Several-Video-272 → u/Ashleynn]

Me too! But you're way too upset about this in a reddit thread screaming at one or two people, when nobody is actually telling anyone how to play the game, just mentioning how it works in Hardcore.

Any time anyone ever suggests a change, they're deciding how someone else would play too. It's not about wanting to force other people to do what you want though is it?

[u/Ashleynn → u/Several-Video-272]

Theres no screaming here, just snark and sarcasm.

When the suggested changes remove options it's specifically to railroad people into a certian playstyle. These people don't want them to have any freedom to choose how they interact with the game. The person I initially replied to here even straight up stated we need to sacrifice the freedom to engage eith the game how we choose to have a "healthy population." Whatever thats suppose to mean. These suggested changes are absolutely, specifically, to force others into a deemed acceptable playstyle.

[u/Yeti90 → u/Ashleynn]

I don't expect of some meta sweat to understand how social dynamics work, especially in a massive multiplayer online game, that they treat like a single player game. But when you are dependent on other people to solve the content and the majority follows the meta, because some streamer or some spreadsheet warrior on the discord said so, then there is essentially no other way to play the game. Unwritten laws or social constraints can be as restrictive as written laws, especially in an environment where you are dependent on others. But like I said, you probably don't understand that as you treat the game as a single player experience.

Keep delivering the KPIs brother, corporate needs to see some DPS results by noon!

[u/Gassenger → u/Yeti90]

This is the lamest argument man. You're being disingenous and painting everyone who disagrees with you as a caricature.

There is no dungeon spamming "meta". Open world questing has been the fastest way to level. You talk about spreadsheet warriors and streamers while fundamentally misunderstanding that dungeon spamming has been slower for leveling. The speedrunners don't even set foot into dungeons lmao. The minmax culture you're talking about doesn't spam dungeons outside of tbc where rep grinding is the most efficient route. Even then, you will get to 70 far faster in tbc by open world questing.

Before you say something about streamers or following a meta just stop. I don't watch anyone and I play how I want to, and 5 man dungeons happen to be the most fun way for me to play personally.

[u/Yeti90 → u/Gassenger]

I am talking about speedrunning dungeons meta and optimising the fun out of the game with all bis gear lists min max crap, I am not talking about dungeon spamming, OOP talked about the toxic meta of skip running everything.

[u/Gassenger → u/Yeti90]

How is doing dungeons optimizing the fun out of the game when they are a suboptimal play? Because you, personally, don't like doing them?