Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

[u/redlow0992]

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

[u/The-Only-Razor]

My absolute fucking least favorite part of retail M+ is the stupid route planning trash. I just want to enter a dungeon and kill everything. Optimal pathing and efficiency maxing isn't fun when it involves doing everything you can to play the game as little as possible.

[u/587493 → u/The-Only-Razor]

Dude same I remember a few years ago I was giving retail a try and excited to run mythic+ only to find out what m+ runs actually ended up being

I left retail and never went back, even though I love challenging dungeons

[u/Creative_Magazine816 → u/587493]

raider.io also ruined M+

mythic plus was so good for legion until the community made it unfun

[u/ArcticAmoeba56 → u/Creative_Magazine816]

This is it though. None of these problems are designed into the game. The people, the players, the community make them a reality.

[u/Rico_Rebelde → u/ArcticAmoeba56]

Players will always optimize the fun out of a game if given the opportunity. Part of the developers job is to prevent that

[u/ArcticAmoeba56 → u/Rico_Rebelde]

Not all players. But certainly a solid majority it seems.

[u/Sad_Bridge_3755 → u/Rico_Rebelde]

And it would be an easy fix. Just add some filters for players to choose. “Full Clear”, “Time Trial”, etc. People who want to speedrun queue for that. People who want to full clear queue for full clear, etc.

If people are still weird about it, introduce rewards for sticking to the playstyle you lined up for. Speed runners get rewarded on a time trial for beating bosses and dungeons fast. Full clears get rewarded on percentage of dungeon cleared.

[u/Lagkiller → u/ArcticAmoeba56]

But they are designed into the game. Mythic+ sets a number of kills and puts a timer on. So it makes route planning and choosing the right packs to kill a design mechanic instead of a preference from players.

[u/ArcticAmoeba56 → u/Lagkiller]

Chosing to engage with it and how you engage with it , is still choice. If people didnt engagevso heavily with it then it wouldnt be a successful system and wouldnt attract further development investment

[u/Lagkiller → u/ArcticAmoeba56]

When there is a timer, optimized routes are forced. There is no choosing how to engage with a timer.

And choosing not to engage with mythic+ means that you don't get end game gear, so you can either not engage in end game content or engage in the content that exists. Claiming that raiders should just not engage in end game raids because the system forces a timer is kind of ridiculous.