Hey folks, I'm usually not this guy but I wanted to get some TLC and maybe guidance.

When WoW:F was announced, I was ecstatic. I loved Classic, I loved Season of Discovery, and I thought this had enough momentum to be the next big thing. Seemed like the investment was too big for Blizz to orphan it like they left SoD behind.

Well, I've been playing the beta, looking at what's in it, and I was dismayed to see that no proper tanking support has been given to Shaman, Lock or Rogue, which were the things I enjoyed the most of SoD.

I know they mentioned it might be a thing in the future, "never say never", but I want to tank and I don't want to level up a character in those classes only to be stuck with a role I don't enjoy, and god knows I don't want to level a Warrior in Classic again. I've rolled way too many Warriors since 2004.

Any advice?

The group finder for dungeons in Forever should get updated with an option to allow players to choose whether they want to manually build their group, or automatically join a group.

The people that want to spend an hour meticulously picking who gets in their group because they don't want anyone to roll on that one piece of loot that isn't going to drop anyways can do so.

The people that just want to group and run the dungeon with loot being an added bonus should just get grouped up automatically and complete two runs before the former group even finishes forming.

We got a choice for transmog, character models, etc. Let us get a choice for grouping as well.

Dont get me wrong, Ill be farming rep for my TuF and mount just like every other warrior/ret/hance shammy

A slightly dramatic title for a post about a video game, but hear me out.

Forever has me excited, and I keep catching myself trying to talk myself out of it. Looking for the catch. Reading something promising and immediately wondering how Blizzard will fuck it up.

I understand where that comes from. Trust gets worn down, and at some point being cynical starts to feel like the sensible thing to do. You can't be disappointed if you never let yourself believe anything will be good. But I'm getting tired of approaching a game I love like I'm preparing evidence for a future “I told you so.”

I want to talk to people about what we might find, what we could do, and where the game could go, without feeling naive or being dismissed as some nostalgic loser for being excited. There’s something really enjoyable about that period when everyone’s still figuring things out, and I'd like to let myself enjoy it.

Ahmpy's suggestion about Northrend gets at the kind of possibility that excites me. It makes me imagine a Northrend that feels distant and terrifying again. Somewhere you venture into with other people, unsure how far you'll get or what you'll find. There’s so much room to do something interesting with this world, even in places we technically already know. Whether his particular idea ever happens isn't really the point for me. I miss having those conversations and letting my imagination run with them, without the conversation immediately being shut down with “yeah, but it's Blizzard.”

Obviously, excitement doesn't make the concerns disappear. We should give feedback, question decisions, and hold Blizzard to what they promise (and remind them of what they might have forgotten). Being hopeful doesn't mean signing away your right to be pissed off later.

But sometimes it feels like you have to attach a disclaimer to every positive thing you say about WoW, just to prove you aren't an idiot. “This looks good, but obviously they'll ruin it.” I recognise that impulse in myself, and I don't think it's making any of this more enjoyable.

Maybe Forever disappoints us. Maybe six months from now this post looks painfully naive. I'll survive being wrong about a video game.

I'd just like to spend the time before then actually allowing myself to look forward to it.

I just get instantly dced

Just watched the podcast on class design.
Multiple times they mentioned they want “hybrid” classes to be competitive dps while also maintaining they would be about 5% less than “pure” dps specs.

They reiterate that while talking about Shadow Priest and they would be competitive dps.

However, when it came to smite priest, they mentioned they want it to be a thing, but also they dont want it to be as good as other dps specs.

They also mention that Smite Priest is something you can have a good time going out in the world and do damage while doing world content, and then go into an instance and HEAL.

Because of that, they would pay a BIG hybrid tax. Which to me sounds like they would be less competitive than other Hybrid specs like Shadow Priest or Balance Druids.

My question is how is Smite Priest any different than any other of the hybrid casters.
Ele shaman can go into an instance and heal.
Balance Druid can go into an instance and heal
Shadow Priest can go into an instance and heal.

Its not like Smite Priest is getting a lot of talents that make them heal better, similar to any other caster. So the decision just seems odd and hypocritical to what they had said earlier in the podcast.

I plan on rolling priest as Smite Priest was somewhat new and sounded interesting, but its disheartening to hear them say they seemingly want it to not be an actual DPS spec for group content like they do the other hybrid caster dps based on some remarks.

Not even a ban, or gold being taken away.

Manually remove their main spell from their character, so the character is essentially worth nothing

I don't know how accurate it is, if at all but I enjoy discussing possible metas and theorycrafting. What do you guys think? Do you think it's accurate? What are your predictions. I know we're in a beta, missing gear and maybe even possible new talents but I want to see what you all say.
[To add. If you're this type of player. This is not the thread for you](/img/e17n5tmi9u151.png)

On my server, the AH price + the AH cut almost equals the vendor price. It's not worth it to sell most weapons on the AH. Did they change this in WoW Forever?

making WotF a cleanse felt right

So much of this subreddit is shitting on the development team, and I'm not trying to glaze them here, but listening to them talk about the details of every single class, their fantasy, their strengths and weaknesses, their talents, etc... Everything on the spot, understanding how the game was played, how the game evolved, and explaining how small changes have consequences that ripple out beyond just a dps meter. They have such a breadth of knowledge of this game and it's history, and they should, but it's still impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDRcv_w85j8

After watching the recent podcast (love these videos by the way) it was mentioned that the warlock fear nerf from 30yd to 20yd was an oversight. I think giving other classes some counter-play to warlocks, the strongest class in pvp, has been a great change I would not undo this. I know the devs dont try and balance for 1v1 fights, but often pvp in the open world happens in a 1v1 context and warlocks always feel unkillable in these encounters. A slight nerf to them in this way actually feels pretty good. What do all of you think?

After watching the recent podcast (love these videos by the way) it was mentioned that the warlock fear nerf from 30yd to 20yd was an oversight. I think giving other classes some counter-play to warlocks, the strongest class in pvp, has been a great change I would not undo this. I know the devs dont try and balance for 1v1 fights, but often pvp in the open world happens in a 1v1 context and warlocks always feel unkillable in these encounters. A slight nerf to them in this way actually feels pretty good. What do all of you think?

I'm still undecided on class but warlock and mage look fun to me. I understand both will be required to provide stuff like water and summons. Only thing I'm wondering is, did you have to trade healthstones to everyone or just to the tanks? Sounds like a pain to trade to so many people before raid and after wipes so just curious.

There's a line where Elaadrin says they've called in outside help, and Valennia basically says "Outside? The other provinces?" and then that they haven't had contact with the other skyborne provinces for some time.

Then, of course, we end the starting zone with the Lord of the East Wind discovering Zephras Isle and that the elves had been hidden away by other residents of skywall.

On that note, it feels like we're primed to both explore other skyborne provinces in the elemental plane and to have some major conflict with Al'Akir and the other wind lords (maybe a late-game dungeon or a raid?).

I haven't followed development talks much at all. Has this been discussed? If not, what does everyone else think about/want out of this?

For me, I'm hesitant because it feels like the kind of storyline we get out of retail. On the other hand, it would feel weird if the Skyborne story is forever stuck in time there without ever getting a resolution to their homeland's peril.

Hope rogues being designated as the official top single target dps doesnt worsen this...

Everyone running to Reddit and the Forums:

Common complaint and misconception: "Dungeon mobs don't give enough xp"

Common complaint and misconception: "Its going to be impossible to find tanks/healers if they don't need to run a dungeon more than once."

Common complaint and misconception: "Blizzard is forcing us to level in the overworld to build communities."

Consider the following scenarios.

Classic 2019 Launch: I am level 18 and I want to run Deadmines for xp and gear this evening. I have a few hours to play. It's the shortly after release so there are plenty of players in LFG for this dungeon. I have all the quests ready to go. I run DM 3 times. Between runs it only takes about 10 minutes to form a group and another 8 to get everyone in the dungeon and ready to start. The dungeons take about 35 minutes each. My total time is 2.65 hours. I gained 2.5 levels and I got 4 blues out of my 3 runs. Also, I'm now in all greens and blues.

Classic 2019 12 months post-launch (We're assuming the xp nerf for having a high level party member is in place): Im level 18 and I want to run Deadmines for xp and gear this evening. I have a few hours to play. There aren't many players forming groups right now so I asked a friend (or I paid a booster) to run me through the dungeon. I have all the quests ready to go. I run DM 3 times. The dungeons take about 20 minutes each. My total time is 1 hour. My mob xp was severely reduced, but with the quests i was able to clear 1.5 levels and I got 4 blues out of my 3 runs. Also, I'm now in all greens and blues.

Forever 2026 Launch: I am level 18 and I want to run Deadmines for xp and gear this evening. I have a few hours to play. It's the shortly after release so there are plenty of players in LFG for this dungeon. I have all the quests ready to go. I run DM 3 times because I saw new items drop off trash mobs, I want more of the gear because I think it looks cool, I want more gear to help me when I go to WC and SFK, and because a friend asked me to help me run it so they could catch up for our WC run. Between runs it only takes about 10 minutes to form a group and another 8 to get everyone in the dungeon and ready to start. The dungeons take about 35 minutes each. My total time is 2.65 hours. I gained 2.5 levels and I got 4 blues out of my 3 runs. Also, I'm now in all greens and blues.

Forever 2026 12 months post launch: I am level 18 and I want to run Deadmines for xp and gear this evening. I have a few hours to play. Finding a group is kind of slow, so I asked a friend (or paid a booster) to run me through on their 60. I have all the quests ready to go. I run DM 3 times because the gear looks cool and it doesn't take long to run so my friend doesn't mind. The dungeons take about 2p minutes each. My total time is 1 hour. I gained 2.5 levels and I got 4 blues out of my 3 runs. Also, I'm now in all greens and blues.

In the new system, you gained the same amount of experience and gear in the same amount of time and suffer no penalty if you have a friend help you on a high level character once groups become more scarce. There were valid reasons to run it multiple times based on my priorities.

Now, let's consider a scenario where we want to level quickly. This remains valid at all points.

1. Acquire dungeon quests and advance chains to their dungeon component (+xp)

2. Run the dungeon and complete all quests (+ major xp and gear)

3. I've gained 2.5 levels and I am now in range to repeat the cycle for the next dungeon. And it took less than 1.5 hours.

In this beta, we've seen each round of this cycle grant between 2 and 3 levels, assuming that continues, dungeon revelers are eating GOOD.

HoT/RFC 14->16

RoL 16->18

DM 18->20

WC 20->22

SFK 22->24

Excavation Site 24->26

BFD 26->28

Stocks 28->30

Gnomer/RFK/Dalaran 30->34

SM GY / SM Lib 34->36

Armory/Cath/Drowned City 36->40

RFD 40->42

Krol'dok 42->44

Mara Purp/Orange/ZF 44->46

Mara Princess 46-> 47

*Here's the slog* 47->50

Alcaz Prison 50->52

Sunken Temple 52->54

DM East/ DM West / LBRS / BRD 54->58

Blackmaw Hold & endgame dungeons 58->60

This will be extremely fast leveling, it will be varied, engaging, with small stretches of overworld questing to pick up chains. Far more fun than doing the same dungeons over and over again to reach the same goal more slowly.

Then, let's talk boosters.

Boosters can be a driving force behind ruining an economy, but the current system cant sustain them at volume. As projected, you're ballparking 18 dungeon runs to complete the path above. In anni/classic, you were paying for dozens of runs if you wanted to boost the entire way. If you're unable to make friends and you have to rely on boosters, you'll only be adding a fraction of the demand the market had before.

They'll still exist, but the environment won't sustain a large population of boosters outside of major leveling booms (new races/new classes) which die out after just a few weeks.

So, no, dungeon mobs xp does not need a boost as long as prequests, current mob xp, and dungeon quests continue to give ~2.5 levels each.

There currently exist plenty of incentive to repeat a dungeon l, especially if you are a tank looking to tank the next tier of dungeon. Gear upgrades are critical for tanks, moreso than any other role in leveling dungeons. Also, dungeons are fun, we help the homies, there are new drops, and whether youre using transmog or not, cool gear looks cool.

And finally, dungeon leveling is completely viable and in the most fun state it's ever been.

DC out. Ty for reading my Ted talk.

I know not everyone may agree, but I love the leveling and questing of vanilla. Every part of it. The long walks, killing 60 enemies for 5 items, quests that require items from three different zones. I love it all.

But with all the new quests and the massive exp from dungeon quests it feels like I'm overleveling the enemies I'm fighting before I'm even halfway through the zone.

I'm not alone in feeling this way and I know there is an admittedly small community of people who love cleaning out zones of every single quest they have no matter how tedious they may be. I met some lovely people questing this way on private servers such as Turtle, Epoch and Ascension that all offered some way to lower exp gains.

I'm not asking for any special rewards nor am I asking for this to be imposed on anyone who doesn't want it. I just want the option. I want a way to slow things down, see more of the quests and the world without having to do half the quests while they're trivial. Please, let me cut my exp gained in half. Thats all.

...and so if you want a specific numbers we think the right numbers around 5% less damage on our our hybrid DPS specs but I want to point out who's a hybrid well pretty much everyone who's not a hunter a mage a rogue or a warlock is a hybrid right if you can do more than one combat role then you have to pay just a little bit for it..

lets goo

Please don't make wow forever feel like it was developed by a group of 14yo who know nothing about rock solid game design just because you're trying to copy what was out there on private servers. It is meant to be CLASSIC + not toonfest+. Keep the classic classes, and add more perks to each talent tree so we can have something like 10 different playstyles per spec on each existing class. This is real horizontal design. Not adding more classes which will force more toon leveling vertically and break the pvp balance farther than you can ever hope to balance. Not to mention it won't feel like classic anymore. New races is as far as I'm willing to accept for character creation. New classes and I'm gone. What always left to be desired about classes in wow is not the amount, it's that people think they know how you should play your character better than you do. New options for each spec break this cycle by each character ACTUALLY being somewhat unique.