Putting LADS continued abysmal performance in context: in September they finally posted their first multibanner since cancelling Valko which was a huge red line for many players. There was a big wave of account deletions and people finally giving up on the game. It's been over 100 days since this boycott started.
Infold threw EVERYTHING at this banner. Every monetization trick they have, including a new "gratitude" point system for extra spending. New outfits, reset their top up store, even offered coupons. Huge "everything must go!" liquidation sale vibes.
And none of it mattered. Their revenue is still not recovering, the player base has shrunk, and the fandom is dying. They killed the golden goose and are standing around its corpse, surprised it's not laying any more eggs. It's baffling. They have no more tricks in their bag. They threw everything into September and it all failed.
And whatever parasocial fandom they do have left, they tried to POISON them with extremely poisonous cocktail recipes using flowers that'll make you finally see Valko IRL
They've used poisonous flowers on past birthday cakes and people recreated them irl just fine without any poisoning. Like cmon these are grown women why are you treating them like stupid babies.
It's assumed all of the ingredients for cakes are made of edible stuff you collect in the mini-game (cream, cookies, paste, chocolate etc.). Even if there were some inedible toppers (like some toys, candles or whatever), I still doubt they use actual flowers for the cake and not fake flowers. The cakes also weren't promoted as recipes.
But I sure hope everyone is safe after recreating those cakes, flowers being real or not aside, common problem for people is trying to eat inedible toppers, thinking they're edible, which leads to broken teeth. We still need warnings for stuff like that irl (EDIT: I'm talking about bakeries etc. here).
You'd be surprised of much grown women can act like stupid babies too. The cow shit flinging was proof of that.
Also, these were in-game cakes that had no recipe or proper ingredients lists to follow. Infold didn't go out their way to make a post about it on social media where they could reach more unsuspecting people.
More obviously dangerous tools have warnings for them. Hoyo even made a conscious effort to replace Calla Lilies with lotus seeds/paste on their Teyvat Food Notes. I don't see why Infold couldn't have done the same.
Do grown women send cow dung to a company? Also not all the lads players are actual grown women. Unless there is heavy verification method (which last i check there wasnt in game)
Someone compiled the estimates from appmagic and qimai, and then compared the current banner's performance to the other multis pre-boycott. And this is what they look like apparently:
i mean we won't really know that until he's released but I think it is safe to say that many players are only willing to spend on anyone if valko is in game because let's be fr that's peak injustice š
And didnāt they post a recipe that got community noted on twitter? People were going crazy because LADS was basically teaching them how to make poison (if I remember correctly)
Yeahhhhh... they posted cocktails based on the current multibanner and they used poisonous flowers as garnish. It took almost two days for them to edit the posts to tell people not to actually recreate the drinks.
To actually put the revenue into perspective: this banner had all the elements to have been the BEST PERFORMING EVER if circunstances had been normal. In an alternative universe we could be looking at Lads' highest revenue ever. This? This is LOW
Would be hilarious if Valko returned and this banner eventually got it's rerun (with Valko, as originally intended) and it outperformed the original release.
It is but at the same time their public reputation is still in the gutter so it honestly is kind of stupid for them to pull out all these stops when they should've been rehabilitating their and the game's images.
I agree itās still a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, but fwiw itās a realistic looking 3D game so they didnāt make money off pngs. Thereās a lot of mocap and animation involved and Iām sure their dev costs are pretty high.Ā
Ya I don't think it will ever EOS. But man you got to admit it used to make bank. It never dropped out of either 1st or 2nd ever back before all this went down.
They earned 19 millions, itās not recovering at all unless you think only 2 millions more than last month for a spicy banner is a lot.
I donāt personally think they will EOS soon, but their will be a drop in quality because compared to most of the other gacha games, they are in 3D, which cost a lot of more.
And LaDS is their cashcow.
Eh what? I donāt know if you actually play the game because you would know if you play that they have their own top up store that most people use because of Apple Store pricing. That does not show up at all here.
If you actually play the game, you'd also know that for some people they just use in game store because its more convenient. Is the top-up shop earning the ~100 million dollar difference from Q2 to Q3? Yet they say all the boycotters are always high on hopium. Be realistic and honest for once. there's a reason why the general gacha public recognizes that Infold made a stupid decision and is now facing the consequences of their own actions.
They had to pimp out a horny multibanner and spam events and leverage a birthday (Zayne) just to eke out half of what was just a typical month for them at one point. By LADS standards itās absolutely disasterous considering the games high overhead, which was only sustained by a near monopoly on the husbando focused space. By now the boycott has turned into permanent player loss, after 90 days a lot of players have given up and moved on. My estimate is ~50% global attrition, as high as 65% for global. They may fluctuate where they are but itās unlikely they will sustain what they were before
Thatās more about their operational costs vs income.
If their continued developement within established quality was made with the use of pre fiasco revenue then they will need to adjust by significant amount which would lead to drop in quality and then even more players will leave and this will cycle to EOS (global at least) eventually. Because even their initial 3-character months brought in more money than they do now with 5 characters they need to develop for.
I donāt even talk about potential new games cause 3 similar cases of severe mismanagement in 3 different games are a pattern not a councidence so any sane person will avoid whatever new stuff theyāll try to put out.
So yeah, they kinda are in a shit position just in slow mo. How slow - time will tell.
Well, itās a bit more complicated than ranking though lol. Respectfully, if they budget based on previous numbers then yeah this isnāt good for them. Iād expect them cut back on things in order to recuperate. Not EOS of course but they definitely are going to have to change things up.
If you pay attention to things like earnings calls and quarterly reports for companies, huge revenue drop-offs like LaDS would be raising all kinds of warning bells in a boardroom. Especially if easily avoidable.
Companies love predictable income. If they were hinging on still making as much as they did prior and were budgeting with that assumption, these kinds of misses have huge downstream consequences.
Essentially, ignore the big number, look at the trend and comparative percentage decline. It may not EOS a game, but itās sure causing wholesale panic at Infold HQ, that much I can be certain.
They have the Nikki series and other stuff, I think Infold can definitely afford to keep LADS alive. Especially since hovering around 20m a month isn't as abysmal as we'd like to think. But on the other hand, this game is really high budget and they probably did use that juicy otome money to fund their other stuff. If there was only a $2m spike for such an intense month I think the game's never hitting #1 again. Genshin is too much of a beast even on months with nothing happening
They do, but LADS was definitely their money maker. Sure, they can keep the game alive and the current quality is fine since they work ahead, but for how much longer if revenue stays this low?
I expected this revenue for LADS considering DAU went down to almost half and there are probably still plenty of players who are on the fence about spending. Speaking for myself, I want to see whether theyāll actually deliver the missing base content for my main before I spend heavily again. I donāt think the revenue will bounce back that quickly.
That said, I do see that theyāre still trying to win back the trust of their player base based on their recent updates. Iāve read the reviews for the story updates too, both the main story and the cards, and from what Iāve seen, majority seems to be satisfied with the quality of the stories. Theyāve also started updating the in-game shops, fixing minor bugs, giving out free cards, etc. So I do think theyāre making an effort to address the issues players had brought up.
And honestly, if the revenue suddenly skyrockets back to #1, Iām a little worried that Infold/PPG might take it as a sign that everything is fine and go back to being arrogant and complacent.
Exactly, LADS probably spends the least amount of money to develop and promote their game compared to other games here that earn a lot less. It doesn't make sense for people saying they're "not making enough" when they were already making a lot in the first place lmao
It's within the context that the drop from revenue last quarter is 50-70%. No company or investors worth their salt will be happy about that, regardless of whether the game is still making a profit. "Making enough to pay the bills" is not what companies like these strive for.
And how do you know investors or companies aren't happy about this? Reminder, this is an otome dating simulator making $20 million dollars a month, something that no other game of the same genre has achieved before. It's still making more money than some of the OPEN WORLD RPGs here on this list that pour much more time, money, and effort into development and promotion.
No investor is happy with only 20mil when they used to make 60-80mil. That's not how business works. Would you be okay being paid only $100 when you used to make $1,000?
Papergames literally has an open world RPG styled game (Infinity Nikki) and it makes way less than LADS. Like I wouldn't be surprised if they were using some of the LADS profits to put more budget into Nikki, and I think they still have Shining too which is, surprise, also 3D and doesn't earn as much. They have a lot to keep up with and it's common for investors to always look for RISING profit. If they saw the game consistently making ~40-50m+ a month and suddenly it can't get half that on a tryhard month, yes they're gonna be pissed lmao. There's a reason people dislike investors and shareholders.
We don't know yet. But Q1 was ~110m, Q2 was ~120m and now Q3 is ~47m.
Q3 is also entirely while under boycott.
A 60% drop in historical revenue is not normal stagnation or market fluctuations. Boards and investors care about money, and thinking they'll happily accept their returns getting cut just because it's still making something is honestly just lazy and lacks logic.
It doesn't matter how much they're making now. It matters how much they "should" be making based on forecasts. And they easily have made ~47m in just one month before.
LADS is literally making 10x more the 2d otome games here, look at ToT and L&N. Sure the operational costs are higher for them, but my point still stands.
Your point is stupid, lads cost 20x more than them you really think ppg are happy that their cashcow made 19m a month when rafayelās second myth alone made that? The global spendingn didnāt even BUDGE.
Yeah i can also compare apples and oranges and keep saying āmy point still stands š¤āļø" i am sure ppg are happy they are beating 2d otome games that have more than 50% ROI compared to 70% of losses they are taking
Because investors want to see money go up not down lmao.Ā
It doesnāt matter if theyāre still making a bit of a profit off ālower effortā development, anything lower than their average revenue is a failure.Ā
Agreed in that LADS is their big cashcow and they barely re-invest back into that game.Ā
However, they gotta prop up favored child Infinity Nikki. And they have other projects in development. Some sort of big 3D open world game in the vein of WWM. Not cheap to make.Ā
They might have to downsize to stay within budget.Ā
People have been saying this since July. Its been 3 months. Yes the game won't EOS anytime soon, it's still cooked with half the revenue it used to make on non-tryhard months
It wont EOS. They will have to adjust down but they can survive off this. Ppl can enjoy their slop with no artistic integrity, thats their choice. Infold seems to be committed to making bad choices so whatever
Looking at the comments, the only thing I'll takeaway from all of this is that parasocial fans (men and women) are a ticking time bomb. Yes, they're lucractive af but it means dangling on a thin tightrope over a giant cliff that could snap at any moment.
Considering their Q3 is down 100 million dollars, that makes it the 100 million dollar question. No one knows what's holding them back from releasing him. The Chinese fanbase is increasingly toxic and combative, so they might be afraid of what they will do. But at this point, they are bleeding out from an artery and are slow walking towards EOS if something doesn't change.
I feel like releasing valko might be just completely terminating life support. A lot of ppl are pissed and probably wonāt come back out of spite, and even more ppl might be pissed with the flip flopping. As much as I want him, I donāt think thereās much hope, considering how theyāre letting it drag on. Everyday they donāt act they make things worse, with scales tipping to not releasing him
Seriously, the only thing I feel that could save them is a complete overhaul of management. (Their PR team in particular is fucking atrocious.) Aside from bringing Valko back, they also need to address the issues regarding their aggressive monetization, limited free resources, and post like an annual road map for their banners, main story updates(and to address the frequency on that) and combat modes.
Also, genuine action. There were ladies who were cyberbullied to the point of attempting suicide. They announced they've set up their legal team, but who's to say they won't take the anti's side again?
Yeah. There were screenshots of multiple cases of cyberbullying in done by CDGs. There was one lady who fought back and sued her cyberbullies afaik. I hope she won. No one deserves to be doxxed and harassed like that.
I actually agree now tbh. Bc the cocktail thing showed they see what we are saying on global. People forget how badly CN reacted to the release, yes some folks want him back and are overall just mad about this company folding to bullies, but a lot of people were butthurt about a new LI because of resources taken away from theirs. Which is completely illogical, but you cant argue with a delusional idol stan fanbase who legitimately self inserts in the main market. I think Infold is sticking to that letter :/ it was so firmly worded, I donāt know how they can flip flop from it and retain any face.
I of course hope he comes back but Iām over the game and situation and especially the company.
At this point, they have to make a decision to stop the bleeding. If they chop off the diseased limb (the anti-Valko side of the fandom), at least they can save themselves and live another day. Sure, you might be missing an arm but at least you aren't DEAD
They could, but they choose not to and ignore players. Ironically enough, their recent poison controversy post was up for 24 hours, and they were able to respond to that after a day. But not to a 100 day boycott. Yeah, they're trash.
"Why not just release Valko exclusive for international server since China hate him so much?"
While Valko has many hater in China, some CN women also love him too. If Infold really released Valko exclusive for global server, they will riot with jealousy.
"This is unfair!"
"Infold sucking up to foreigner!"
Bla bla bla.
I don't even want to imagine what happened next š
depending on how you read this, they probably don't plan to release any more new love interests: (from their response to the whole valko debacle)
We have decided to cancel both the launch and any further development of the new love interest. We also commit that no additional love interests will be introduced in future content plans.
Released him now, ded. Anti will still complain because he look gay, their main getting sideline because of new toy, it happened to Sylus and that other guy. Most pro-Valko will not come back because they no longer trust the company and move on
don't released him. Valko will keep on haunting them. Pro group will never leave them at peace. Anti will fight back but do they pay the game?
TLDR: PPG has actually self-destructed the moment they took back their words and aborted Valko. There's no winning, so you just gonna try to milk whatever left in the fandom
if they release him the vocal part of the community who was against his release will just start stalking the company's hq again with funerary items, dung and maybe something more sinister. You do not mess with these people. the company is held hostage by threats.
There are laws in place, but it is still PPG's responsibility to protect their own IP. If they won't sue against the smear campaign, then there will be no consequences for CDGs to face.
iirc the government was brainwashed by the haters who convinced them infold are national traitors for adding random numbers into an obscure story section that happened to be related to some japanese human experiments or something, thats how they managed to get rid of valko in the first place
They put themselves in an unwinnable position lmao
Imagine if Genshin suddenly released a new element only old fat male NPCs could use. Half the people would love it because it's OP and broken. The other half would hate it because the men are ugly and old. But with 1 old man character already having been released, they can't really do anything. Can't undo the change, but also can't make more. Stuck in limbo unless you decide to say goodbye to part of your playerbase.
In this case, "Genshin" undid the element, changed the old man to Dendro retroactively and made him a waifu through some Heksenzerkel magic.
I wouldn't even say 50% hates Valko. It's more like 30%, but that 30% is loud enough to cause an echo, making people think they're the majority, and insane enough that they'll do batshit crazy things like accusing a fictional character to be a rapist, buying news outlets for it, and sic the Chinese government on a company over said fictional character.
It dropped so much because CN fans that dislike Valko quit when he was introduced because they have completely lost trust for the company. His introduction PV had 2 mil hate comments on rednote
If they are gone forever and havenāt come back, then the game would only benefit from returning Valko bc there is a vocal and waiting contingent of players who would return to the game for him.Ā
So infold can loose the few fans they have left? What kind of logic is this? The money you see right now is from the CN fans that stayed despite the Valko fiasco and are playing again because he got cancelled. They are fans of the existing characters, not Valko because the Valko fans have either quit or are boycotting. If he was reintroduced, they would alienate the only ones left.
Go onto CN socials and you will actually see how disliked Valko is. On CN socials that need CN ID where global fans canāt spam on, so not rednote, you will see how few Valko fans are. Weibo themselves (not infold) deleted all Valko comments on lads page because the system detected botting related to Valko.
The fans who stayed proved they will stay no matter what Infold does. Why do you automatically assume that ALL of the current players will leave if Valko returns? What kind of logic is that? The reality is many people that are still playing are neutral. Many are so parasocial about their favs they will never leave.Ā
Infold has waiting in the wings people who have proven they want Valko and will return to the game and play if he is reinstated (the boycott). How much of the lost revenue is people who left forever? How much is the boycott? You donāt know. Only Infold has a good idea because of their metrics. Their Q3 tanked, making as much the entire quarter as they used to make in a month. Now theyāre onto Q4. They MAY choose to bring Valko back in this quarter IF they see it as more viable income than what they have right now (the three worst performing months since launch).Ā
But I wasnāt even talking about any of that. You made an assumption that the loss of revenue can almost wholly be attributed to people who left from dissatisfaction after Valkoās launch. What I was trying to say is, after their Caleb MS update, the new anecdotes, and the 5-multi those people still do not return, they are a lost money stream and should just be written off. If Infold sees their revenue not recovering after attempting to bring those players back, their next logical option would be to pivot to bringing in players that have petitioned for 100+ days to bring Valko back and have stated (whether true or not) that they will return and spend.Ā
Itās not unlikely that they will try to play both sides and see who brings them the most money.Ā
No Iāve been on CN socials, and I can tell you that the reason many of them decided to stay was because Infold cancelled Valko so quickly. Valko fans are mostly global fans and they arenāt spending anywhere near the same level as CN fans of the other characters. We already know how little global contributes to overall sales compared to CN, so why would Infold jeopardize its CN player base for that?
And do you know why Iām so certain about this? Because Infold has doubled down on Valko being cancelled again and again. Just today, the fact that they responded so quickly to the ridiculous drink situation but completely ignored the Valko boycott for 3 months shows that they do in fact keep an eye on whatās happening in the community. So when it comes to the people constantly screaming about Valko, theyāre actively choosing not to respond.
Infold doesnāt give a fuck about the fans or the characters. They care about money. They have access to all the actual player and spending data, so they know far better than any of us what decisions are likely to make or lose them money. The fact that they continue to stand by this decision despite all the boycotting is evidence enough for me that Valko is nowhere near the money-maker you think he is.
And what are you talking about when you say people arenāt returning? Spending and activity going up compared to last month is showing that they are recovering. Do you seriously expect CN players who quit because they lost trust in Infold after Valko was introduced to come rushing back immediately? Rebuilding trust takes time, especially once youāve already lost it.
The boycott isnāt global only? Iāve ALSO seen CN socials and you know what I see? Valko super topic at #5 passing Xavier lol Infold getting spam posted and ratioed there just like on global. Iāve seen tags like āLads is 5 foreverā taken down while ālove and Deepspace Ao Yinā reach #1 on Weibo. Ofc we donāt know who did it or why but itās worth considering. I also remember CN whales sharing screenshots of conversations with VIP CS that said they wonāt return until Valko does. There are fan purchased billboards in places like London, Milan, and Times Square for Valko by CN fans. That shows he has people who will spend for him and spend big.Ā
Do you know why Iām confident theyāll bring him back? They brought back Shaw for less. You say they only want money and then turn around and say they will abandon a multi-million dollar asset as if it was chump change. That doesnāt sound like caring about money. And again, you donāt have the data. I donāt have the data. Only Infold does. If they really donāt want to bring Valko back, why is his name allowed on officially moderated platforms? Why are the comments allowed on for their social media posts? Why have they not doubled down on their statement in the last three months since their loyal players have repeatedly said theyāre sick of Valko supporters āruining the game for themā? Youād think if they wanted to keep their current players happy they would do everything they could to drive off the boycotters. Curiously they donāt.Ā
Also yeah they responded to the drink fiasco because they were immediately legally liable and had to. They havenāt addressed Valko but they did create a dedicated legal WeChat they announced this month, which shows they are making big legal moves for SOME reason that may have something to do with the 100+ negative media articles in CN at the end of June.Ā
Spending increased $2 mill over last month with the most aggressive monetization possible and the first time theyāve ever done cumulative top up rewards. Downloads are at an all time low. But yeah thatās recovery. Itās been three months for people unhappy with Valko to return (with Infold actively addressing their main concerns in those months). How much longer should it take?Ā
"It dropped so much because CN fans that dislike Valko quit when he was introduced"
The biggest lie EVER, explain why there is no drop in revenue during valko's week? whoever left was not worth keeping anyway
Where is your data even from? I donāt trust random excel sheets. You can actually see right here on this months revenue chart that global is the minority when it comes to spending. Same was true before the Valko fiasco.
So do tell why the CN revenue is going up despite Valko not being released this month. Donāt say itās because of things to spend on in game because global, who are the only ones that wanting him back, didnāt go up.
And to answer your question this is the actual data for the Sep and since you cant interept data you can see that the global increased because there's more spending in the game (yet they still didnt spend more than july aka the bannerless months lol) yet the cn only rose by 0.2% which means the majority are still withholding their spendings even with all the paywall shit they threw this months.
This is from AppMagic and since you cant read i am talking about the cn revenue which you can clearly see is doing worse compared to the multi banner during which valko was introducted (and in which there was actually a spike both in revenue and DAU) , whoever you're claiming "left the game" because of him never made meaningful contribution to the revenue so they are irrelavant to the company.
I think you are the one that canāt comprehend. Of course the banner before Valko was introduced had higher revenue in CN. That was before they lost so many players because of the mistrust infold caused by introducing Valko. If it was the case that they quit because of the Valko cancellation they wouldnāt have come back now when Valko is more cancelled than ever. Make it make sense. You can see the actual reaction of Valko fans by looking at global who has gone down.
Itās funny that you say the big CN spenders that quit didnāt make meaning contributions, but the global that left did. I think on this sub more than any other place knows the spending power of CN compared to Global.
Based on polls (and the revenue, lets just be honest) theres more people who want Valko than not, and theres also a large percentage of players who are neutral and don't care if he comes back or not, and then theres also a percentage of players who don't want him but won't quit and will stick around anyway.
And, the fact the of matter is, the game is broken without a 6th LI. The combat system and stellactrum system is set up for 6 base companions. The annual schedule is set up around 6 LIs released equally across 12 months. The game will not work properly and limp towards EOS without a 6th LI.
Tbh i think the game is just broken since launch. If the colors really mattered why didnt they release em all quickly but instead waited almost 3 years? They also arent being consistent with birthday cards colors and stats. To me it looks like Infold hardly ever cared about real game balance compared to milking players š¤·āāļø
the combat system isnāt broken with only 5 LI. Itās entirely possible to complete OO and SHC with just one LI. Most players wonāt ever finish the Directional Orbits of their fave LIs, an additional directional orbit wonāt matter. Abyssal Choas/Unicorns arenāt even based on the stella system.
The system of having 6 LIs in the schedule meant we were seeing shorter length banners and more aggressive rerun schedules in order to fit everything into one year. The new schedule with breaks between banners is actually more relaxed and feels less overwhelming. LADS had already began their decline this year, Valko wasnāt going to save them from that. The only thing that will is actually improving the game.
A lot of players were willing to overlook the current issues in LaDS because they (perhaps foolishly...) assumed it would get better after the 6th LI was released. Which many people were anticipating and expecting.
Orbits are only really attainable for whales who double down on one companion or who whale, this is common knowledge. UNICORNS and AC are ways to test out companions you don't have and are mainly story, not considered a main combat mechanic.
SHC Stella teams are organized around shuffling the 6 Stellas into different 2 Stella pairs. Without a base amber companion in the mix, they can't shuffle them evenly. Not the mention SHC is **3** teams per cycle, half of 6 so you can space out the SHC companion teams to not repeat an LI twice in a row.
New limited companions are released based on each LIs primary, secondary, tertiary, etc Stellas. Without a companion with a primary amber Stella, the system unravels and theres a massive hole missing. Without a base amber companion, players who don't own one of the limited amber companions are SOL in SHC. A base amber companion keeps it accessible for low spenders or new players.
There are 6 promises a year with 2 cards each. With only 5 LIs this means an unequal distribution of LI promises per year. There are 6 multis a year, 6 10DWY a year. When they only had 3 LIs, they made up for the disparity by having longer and more multis (2024 had 7 instead of 6) and uneven solo banners releases so one LI ended up with more new cards at the end of the year than the others. Which can in the future lead to the same complaints about unequal treatment and missing content between mains.
The precise wish gacha system works better (more fairly) with 6 cards in a multi instead of 5, so you don't have to have 1 card picked twice.
getting rid of valko means losing global players, releasing valko means losing chinese players. if most of the money you as the company make comes from chinese players not just from in game purchases but also merchandise, which group would you think it's wisest to listen to when you can really only pick one? cn players have already had issues with the devs long before valko, and to them his release was just the cherry on top. infold not wanting to stoke the flames even more is not surprising at all
i won't deny that some cn players want him back too but if you went on xiaohongshu right now to ask them whether they want him or not i'm positive the majority will say they don't. the engagement on his trailer spoke for itself
They've done polls on XHS and Weibo and a majority want them back. The polls were broken up by age group and everyone over 18 wanted him, it's a vast majority of underage players who claim they don't want him. It's a mess
I used to have the link to the original post, but ive since lost it. Comments further down have less blurry pics so you can see the age range (basically people born in 90s, 2000s, and 2010s). Dark orange is people wanting him back.
Well itās not just global that saw their revenue decreasing by half at least, China too. Even when Valko was already canceled.
They are boycotting too, for Valko to come back.
actually most cn fans do want him back or just don't really care. it just comes down to who that company wants more especially since they want global expansion (my ass)
It's about half between Chinese and global, I believe. They had a banner that they didn't spend enough on to get a free 10 pull after claiming they spent so much that global didn't matter, and blamed global for them not being able to uphold that claim and not earn the 10 pull
Oh for sure. There's a lot of underlying issues with the game that used Valko as a scapegoat since he was being released at the time without addressing any of the desired fixes player had been mentioning. He would have stretched already thin resources even more, for starters
exactly. genuinely think everybody dissatisfied from both sides needs to cut their losses and free themselves from this game because ppg has shown no sign of fixing anything at all lmao. but clearly they'll be fine seeing as people are still getting it to top 5 in revenue. oh well. feels like i definitely made a good call quitting early this year
Because the backlash from the people who hate him will be more severe. I am speaking as someone who does want him back, but the cn socials were like a war zone from June 22 to 30. There is backlash either way but the vitriol and smear campaign that was going on in the span of a week was terrifying.
At this point I think theyāre waiting until anniversary. This gives them time to address other player complaints (like lack of Caleb ms) and time to scrub out anything that could even cause a scandal again like the 731 stuff.Ā
Personally, I think thatās too long of a wait, especially since they havenāt even acknowledged the upset player base. But who knows whatās going on behind the scenes.Ā
Edit : Jesus lads fanbase is toxic, getting downvoted for stating what happen
It would look bad on the company image because it looks like they can't be firm on their decision
The chronology was :
1) vocal group hates valko and wants him to not be added
2) infold states that they will still add valko
3) cow dung and other death related threat was send
4) infold states that they will not add valko
5) lad user base drops
If they added valko after this, it would seem they don't have backbone for their company vision
I fear it's already too late. Them cancelling Valko in the first place showed they have zero backbone. I may rag on Hoyo, but I do appreciate that they stick to believing in their own creative integrity. Imagine if they had cancelled Scaramouche just because of the intense hate.
It already is that way because they removed something from their original game plan. Thats the main reason the global fanbase is so upset, no one wants to play a game like that especially in western countries were free speech is a crucial cultural element. China doesnt have that luxury.
Its not really about Valko, we barely know anything about him. But removing him was cutting out 1/6 of the intended game because of bullies and whiners and thatās absolutely insane practice.
But at the end of the day they have to cater to CN so not much we can do about it besides kill their western expansion
Youāre getting downvoted because that is not what happened. PPG released a stamped statement that there is an organized smear campaign from unknown parties and will take it to court during the time they were also stating that Valko is part of a long-term plan. It wasnāt until the controversial number, 731, from Xaviers story was brought to mainstream CN media and pinned on Valko, calling PPG āanti-Chinaā, that they had to pull the plug to protect the company. There are public lawsuits happening at this time.
They can't even if they want to and not because of "CN don't want". Valko being in the subject of the controversy means that it has become a bullet against Infold.
If they release Valko, those that created the controversy against Infold would be up in arms again and would basically scream towards the media and the government that Infold decided to "rebel" again. The government would then has to step in and this time, the punishment would be much harsher.
This is similar case to the Snowbreak, except that instead of one character, it is the entire genre. Snowbreak got hit due to their excessive fanservice and they have to censor everything and mind you this is their selling point. Even after a while, they can't put back in the same level of fanservice because if they do, then the people that reported Snowbreak would report to government again and then government would have to come and punish them again.
To the CN company, no amount of money is ever worth being punished by the government.
Careful, you're going to have the usual suspects saying the game's recovering because they ranked in the top 5 as if they weren't begging and pleading for $$$. Prior to June, that game never really fell out of top three because it's the only game of its nature AND because this chart only considers mobile revenue (which is LaDS's only source of cash).
Gacha games on the decline it's time for everyone to rejoice!! Finally getting free of the FOMO tactics and sunk cost feeling. It's a lot more fun to engage with these games casually lol
Not to mention just a few days ago they literally gave an instruction to their players to poison themselves. I do not understand how they're still managing to be top 5 š
It's funny seeing the antis fighting for their lives in this comment thread. Sadly they're a lost cause, and so is LADS. It was nice knowing ya'll š«” #BRINGBACKVALKO
Hopefully this is a mass industry lesson to all devs to not bend over backwards to their insane playerbase anymore. They should've just released Valko and kept it pushing. And I don't even feel bad because now all the pathetic players in the CN playerbase showed their asses when protesting Valko and fighting their imaginary ghosts aka deep homophobia and tunnel vision. It just sucks for all the normal people who finally had a girl-catering/boy-enjoyer game with actual combat depth aka a high-quality girls' gacha that was something beyond just dress 'em ups or other fluff.
genuine q from a curious girlie that doesn't play lads but plays other otome games: why is this seen as an abysmal performance when they still earned 19 million and even went up in the rankings from last month and is still in the top 5?
sure, it's not genshin's 50 million nor are they number 1 or 2 anymore but it's not "dying" in the sense that it has no online presence or earnings. it's certainly earning less and there are many ppl voicing their dissatisfaction and quitting but i wouldn't necessarily consider it a failure (in fact objectively it's still in the top 5 best performing gacha game even when being boycotted, an impressive feat not many other gachas can achieve)
basically i wanna know what the end goal for this boycott is? and if the fandom really thinks lads is dying when its online and physical presence is still incredibly strong even if half of it is due to disappointment.
outrage does not equal death (like how a lot of ppl hate on katseye's songs or recent direction but katseye is still incredibly popular. i'd equate the "death" of a big fandom to what happened to game of thrones after the last season aired. it's still incredibly popular as well but it's no longer the cultural phenomenon it once was and people don't talk about it anymore outside of the spinoff shows or when discussing the ending of the show or grrm's book-writing process. i used to hear its name every time someone recommends a show but now it's not even in conversations anymore)
im completely neutral to lads btw, so i hope this isn't seen as hate or defensive! im a complete outsider to this situation and is interested bc i play otome games too, just not lads
To answer your question, at least on the global side, most boycotters want to pressure the company (PaperGames) into releasing a character it cancelled the release for (Valko).
I'll also take the chance to opine on this whole situation as someone who works in finance. This boycott is interesting because, when I think about other major boycotts we've seen in recent years with Starbucks, Gillette, Bud Light, etc., the goal is to voice your dissatisfaction at the company's stance by not giving them your business. The main difference is that these other companies all have close substitutes that consumers then pivot to. Sure, the controversy might spawn headlines and lots of discussion for a while, but largely the dissatisfied portion of the fanbase either decide it's not a big enough deal to continue boycotting a month later or they decide to switch to another similar product permanently and stop engaging with the offending brand. LaDS exists in a unique spot where there are no other close substitutes (if you define the substitute as a 3D otome gacha game, as 2D otome gacha games do exist). And so I think there is a portion of the fanbase that continues to actively campaign and boycott with the goal of forcing the company to choose differently in a way that I've never seen before because there is nothing for the fans to switch to if they want a comparable product.
I know both the pro-Valko and anti-Valko sides of the community frame it like it's obvious what the company should do going forward, but I'm not sure it is (and I say this as someone who would appreciate Valko being reinstated into the game). There has been a large drop in revenues, but it is honestly unclear how much of it is driven by the actively boycotting players and how much of it is from players who have permanently quit due to the company demonstrating that it will cave to players on its artistic vision. It's also unclear if they reinstate Valko how much revenues would increase by and how much it would decrease due to anti-Valko players quitting. This is not even taking into account downstream effects, like the number of new players that Valko would bring into the game, or the fact that the company is clearly incompetent in managing content for 5 LIs, so what would even happen with 6.
None of us know what the internal analytics look like for this company, but I will just say that this company has demonstrated that they are incompetent and they are succeeding in spite of it due to cornering an underdeveloped market. The fact that this controversy even happened demonstrates a deep lack of understanding of its player base and the market it operates in, regardless of whatever other entities you want to assign blame to. The amount of content developed for LaDS vs. the amount of money it brings in is truly offensive to me. There is clearly a management problem at this company. All that to say, regardless of what they decide to do going forward, I can't even be sure it's the result of sound market analysis.
I highly doubt LaDS will EOS in the next 2-3 years regardless of what they decide to do, though time will tell what happens. Gillette rebounded from their boycott very well. Bud Light did not, despite trying to walk it back (but still not "EOS"d even though its revenues declined quite drastically and never recovered).
They used to make 60mil a month. 19mil is a shockingly bad drop from heights like that. It's not a reduction in revenue that can be explained by bad economics or something outside of their control. The current banner running is only making 40% of what similar events made before.
They are hemorrhaging money. They are RED for this quarter. For the first time in the game's existence. Considering how expensive the game is to make, earning that little is unsustainable.
is the game their only source of money? i see plenty of merch being sold and events being held, and in my country their merch is still very popular. i see these men's faces plastered all over the weeb areas
ofc, i can't say whether their merch earns them a lot of money and makes up for the loss, but merch is one of the many many reasons why pokemon still isn't bankrupt despite releasing misses after misses (the other reason being that pokemon fans (me included) may or may not eat dirt if pokemon sold it as a new game /JOKE)
so i guess im wondering what fans of lads are hoping to happen with this boycott! bringing valko back? eos? improvements to story (im just throwing random things out there bc idk lads at all). insane drop or not the game is still immensely popular and is still in the top 5 so it's not going anywhere unless ppl completely stop talking abt it game of thrones style... unless you guys don't want it to go anywhere and are just hoping that the devs do smtg?
in which case it goes back to my og question (what is this boycott for?) thank u sm for answering some of my q btw!
Chiming in to answer as I'm someone boycotting after playing the game for two years -- for me, the boycott being successful would mean the following: Releasing Valko as originally planned and a commitment to better communication and a basic roadmap of what to expect in the future -- so fans can be assured all LIs have equal treatment.
Valko was the "last straw" for me and many because before they canceled him they made a statement that he was important and would not be removed, only to change that. (Some have stated they can't release him now because that'd be "flip flopping," but it'd actually be staying true to their original statement to release him. The flip flopping was suddenly cancelling him.)
Most people boycotting have loved and even still do love the game. I don't want it to EOS, many of us boycotting don't want it to EOS. (and I don't think it will, but I do think the company is likely panicking as they were using LADS revenue for new games/new offices/etc. and that has very suddenly dropped for them.)
I want to return to the game and enjoy the characters I still think are great characters -- but I can't while the company is willing to throw an entire character into the dumpster instead of standing behind their own words that this was a valuable character to the world building and story.
Whatās funny is that some of the biggest accounts pushing the boycott arenāt even boycotting the game themselves. Thereās one whoās been caught still playing and already has the new cards ranked up to R3.
I also keep seeing players who has those hashtag on their bio are still logging in, playing, spending money, and actively talking about the game.
I honestly donāt think they understand what āboycottā means.
your personal experience is not objective. the playerbase that want valko back is huge and diverse, so just because you're seeing valko supporters does not always mean you're seeing boycotters. and what big accounts? you're on reddit so keep the conversation relevant to reddit.
the mark of a successful boycott is a reduction in revenue, in this case it's especially obvious from the anticipated revenue. this month should have made double if not triple than it did, compared to previous months with multis. tell me how <20 mil is a win when they were bringing in 40-50 mil per month last quarter.
Where are you look at to say they were at 60 mil before Valko? The sales were down even before the whole Valko fiasco. Why pretend they had a fall from 60 mil?
50 millions on average yes. Meaning they could have 60-70 or 40 millions. It's a big fall from where they were before. And no, it's not because the CN side is also boycotting for whatever reasons.
okay thanks for being really helpful! i understand that this is an abnormally low month but i also wanna know why ppl are boycotting and what outcome they expect to happen from this boycott šš
The main goal is to bring Valko back of course. Because it wasn't just a whole damn character that they decided to cancel, but an entire main story branch that's supposed to connect MC with the main antagonists of the story, as well as a new orbit stage(combat mode). It's like if Hoyo decided to delete a main quest days before the patch's release.
The other goal is for them to address the long standing issues regarding their main story updates and greedy practices. They need to give out more ways to grind free resources, as well as update the main story in a consistent frequency.
It's a whole laundry list of issues at this point.
Cancellation of Valko and alteration of the main story
Lighting problems for darker skinned MCs to the point you can't even see them in photos
Lack of ways to farm resources
Lack of content for Caleb and Sylus compared to the OG3
High barrier for entry for new players if you want to do combat
Lack of combat updates in general but also impossible to clear without specific paid cards
Extremely slow story updates (one every 6 months)
Only regularly updated content is in the form of paid banners
Those are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.
Valko would have helped with a few of these issues (temporarily). His release would have:
Moved the main story along
Provided a base combat character that would have made it easier to clear certain combat levels,
There would have been new combat levels released
There would have been new standard cards to pull for (some players have already maxed out all cards in the standard pool, so all the standard wishes are completely worthless for them).
So yeah, people would like them to bring Valko back as a starting point and then also address the laundry list of other issues in the game.
A lot of people are boycotting because the devs cancelled a new love interest named Valko that was to be released due to the backlash of some very loud people (or bots, idk) on Chinese social media. The boycotters want Valko reinstated in game as a love interest. Some have quit logging in and other have gone from p2p to f2p. They won't log in or spend until he is back in the game as intended.
There is still a good amount of players who continue to play and support the game as if nothing happened or are spending less, and that is reflected in the revenue.
People who boycott generally do it demanding Valko (cancelled character) to be reinstated (main goal) and many game's problems to be fixed (lighting issues for dark skinned MC, missing content for some of the LIs).
Copy pasting another comment I made in the thread to support this argument:
Contextualization of the events running and/or starting in September in Love and Deepspace:
09/01 to 09/07: Zayne's birthday banner (days 2 to 8)
09/08 to 09/15: Where Silverwings Rest, Sylus 3rd myth rerun banner
09/08 to 09/17: Shared Bloom, event featuring a minigame to unlock anecdotes (text based story/lore content)
09/17 to 09/27: Our Trajectory Astray, Caleb main story branch release (permanent) + limited-time event to claim associated 5* memory for free
09/17 to 10/01: Fragrant Sachets, decor items crafting event + Blooming Osmanthus, limited-time check-in event to claim rewards
Starting 09/22: top-up bonus reset, 10 new outfits available to purchase (5 for MC and 1 for each LI), Lunar Shop update
09/22 to 10/10: A Night That Never Ends, multi banner and event + Gracious Treasure, limited time top-up rewarding event, introducing "gratitude points" in LaDS for the first time
09/28 to 10/16: 10 Days With You, limited-time check-in event to claim Sylus 4* memory Autumn Eyes for free
They threw so much at the players this month. And while 19 mil is not nothing, it didn't even come close to what they would usually make on any given month.
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u/SsibalKisekiGenshin, WuWa, AKEF, NTE, AzPromilia, Ananta | Open Worldling6h ago
Giving $19 million this month to a company that is actively telling their players to go drink poison is pretty funny
And that drop is mostly from CN fans quitting or stop spending because infold introduced Valko. Valko fans are almost all global and global represents a very small part of the total revenue because they donāt spend at all on the same level as CN fans.
They are now slowly winning back those CN players when it has become more clear that Infold is not changing their mind about cancelling Valko. Thatās why the Valko fans, which is global, has decreased spending.
you guys are still going on with that "it's because of cn fans who quit because of valko" bs? should I even bother entertaining this and explain why it's so wrong?...
There was massive back lash in China about him and the people who didn't want him used unrelated outrage to get the government involved. It's pretty shocking how it all went down.
Hughes backlash from a loud cn minority. most supporters just kept quiet because the same thing happened with the other 2 love interests who were released later and waited for the whole thing to blow over. infomd clearly didn't realise how popular he would become and how many fans were actually drawn in by him
Idk man. Not only did they make MORE than last month, the money they made was almost 20m. And that's only the estimate using whatever data we have. The real money is most likely closers to 4x that. They will keep doing just fine.
lmao the no source on "the real numbers are closer to 4x that" is so funny - so when they used to avg 40m on sensor tower (a low month, mind you) were they actually making 160m?
Ofc no source. But me saying that is just as reliable as the numbers you see here. I'm guessing, same as Sensortower is. They literally state that disclaimer...
The difference between you and Sensortower is they are using data and an algorithm to come up with numbers while you are pulling them from thin air. There is no universe in which these numbers are inflated 4x.
Even if they were earning 4x more, the numbers would likely be consistent. Meaning the lost would also be the same.
I can assure you that a company donāt like at all when they lose 50-70% of their usual income.
Me, the ever dedicated Nikki fangirl watching my closest neighbour gacha game from the same company completely self immolate, hoping the flames don't reach me...
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u/BookerDeWittsCarbine 7h ago
Putting LADS continued abysmal performance in context: in September they finally posted their first multibanner since cancelling Valko which was a huge red line for many players. There was a big wave of account deletions and people finally giving up on the game. It's been over 100 days since this boycott started.
Infold threw EVERYTHING at this banner. Every monetization trick they have, including a new "gratitude" point system for extra spending. New outfits, reset their top up store, even offered coupons. Huge "everything must go!" liquidation sale vibes.
And none of it mattered. Their revenue is still not recovering, the player base has shrunk, and the fandom is dying. They killed the golden goose and are standing around its corpse, surprised it's not laying any more eggs. It's baffling. They have no more tricks in their bag. They threw everything into September and it all failed.